Weekly Discussion: Cycle

[fchidsey]

how do we know when rock is done cooking?

[jenglish]

Originally Posted by fchidsey

how do we know when rock is done cooking?

WHen it stops shedding bacteria.

[fchidsey]

ok but what are the signs it's done shedding bacteria???

[jenglish]

If you shake them or run a powerhead nothing comes out.

[fchidsey]

k

[turboaf]

I would just like to add that I think setting up your first tank is a cycle of learning, frustration, fun, more learning , even more frustration and then even more fun lol.

Which for me would have been impossible with out all the great people and help at TRT thanks everyone as I know just how expensive personal time is.

Lastly thanks for another great topic.

[Geoff]

i am one that believes that the nitrogen cycle is the cycle that is probably the fastest cycle that occurs in our systems. i feel that to much emphasis is placed on this cycle. people new to the hobby zero in on this cycle then feel that when their nitrite are zero, their tanks are good to go. in reality they are far from it. it takes very little time for a tank to be colonized with enough bacteria to complete the nitrogen cycle. yes, certain aspects of the nitrogen cycle are toxic to the critters, but in reality it is the nutrient cycle that leads to the greatest number of people leaving the hobby. nobody likes an ugly tank. if the nutrient levels are not kept in check than no matter how much you watch the nitrogen cycle the tank will turn ugly.

since our systems are controlled systems everything that is added/removed from the system will be involved in a cycle. either controlled by us or by bacteria. the nitrogen cycle can be controlled almost entirely by bacteria. little intervention from us is needed. we do however have to understand the individual habitats of the bacteria needed to complete the nitrogen cycle and adapt our tanks to balance this out. to many high oxygenated areas will lead to higher nitrates, that can not be brought down.

phosphates do cycle/flux in the system. the deeper/more the sand bed the greater the flux. the more you siphon the sand the less the flux. bacteria live and die. as they live and die the amount of phosphates they uptake and release due to this gives us a cycle in the phosphate levels seen in the water column. limiting the amount of places phosphates can accumulate limits the amount of flux and therefore the swings in phosphate levels for other organisms to uptake and grow.

it is best to remember that our systems are controlled systems. they can not be just left alone and expect to thrive long term. it is important to understand all of the bacterial systems going on in our ocean slices. everything added/removed needs to be though of as a cycle. everything that goes into the tank is different once it hits the water. it will be going through a cycle. even a piece of glass will be colonized by bacteria. it is now a part of a cycle. which cycle? removing it will do what? maybe not much or it could cause a swing in the nitrogen cycle, or maybe the silica cycle.

G~

[Elegance Coral]

Great post G. Especially this statement.

Originally Posted by Geoff

in reality it is the nutrient cycle that leads to the greatest number of people leaving the hobby. G~

Unfortunately it's hard for today's hobbyist to find reliable info on this subject. Most of the authors and speakers in this hobby would have us believe that the nutrient cycle, that the vast majority of life on this planet relies on, doesn't take place in our systems. We're taught that worms, pods, and microbes can simply make nutrients disappear. Nothing could be further from the truth. All organic matter in our systems is part of the nutrient cycle. Living or dead. If we are to keep delicate coral reef species, we must limit the organic matter that fuels the nutrient cycle. Everyone's heard of compost piles, right? They are simply areas where organic matter is stored. A multitude of organisms will go to work breaking it down. Worms, insects, microbes............. It doesn't simply disappear though. The nutrients in the organic matter are simply released into the environment. That's why it makes such good fertilizer. The same thing will happen in our systems if we allow detritus/organic matter to build up anywhere in the system. The worms, pods, and microbes simply turn it into fertilizer. This is usually where the hobbyist starts spending tons of money on quick fixes. Denitrifying filters, phosphate removers, and countless other gadgets and additives. When they're out of money and the system still looks like crap, we find their system in the for sale forum. All this could be avoided, if we could just get a basic understanding of the nutrient cycle.

[fchidsey]

It is very interseting to read this thread and the other discussion of the week about supplements and nutrient additions. I think that Geoff has made a great statement about how everything we add to our systems affects our systems. I would include the things we have proven to benifit our systems, there has to be a by-product some where in there from all of the calcium added, or any other supplement that is added. other wise why when we do a water change to the corals (or at least mine used to) perk up and look so good after a 25 percent water change.

[jenglish]

Originally Posted by Elegance Coral

This is usually where the hobbyist starts spending tons of money on quick fixes. Denitrifying filters, phosphate removers, and countless other gadgets and additives. When they're out of money and the system still looks like crap, we find their system in the for sale forum. All this could be avoided, if we could just get a basic understanding of the nutrient cycle.

I think that PO4 removers and nitrate filters can be band-aids but I look at both of them as possible means to remove some of the nutrients we put in. In the end to me, no one means of nutrient removal is inheirently better than any other, they all have their +s and -s. But I think the important point you covered is that a bristleworm's excretion is still in the tank, despite passing through a wormhole. CUC's are not magical critters that destroy matter

[Geoff]

after a 25% water change your nutrient levels in the water column have almost disappeared. this is why your corals perk up. once the nutrients equalize again to the levels in the LR/sand the corals go back to "normal" for the particular system. it does not take long for this equalization to occur.

G~

[lynxie]

as a mere newb to the hobby, from my experience in setting up i found that everyone talks about cycling a new tank to mean nitrite/amonia/nitrate.... very few ppl mention to the beginners about the diatoms, algal cycles, a billion tube worms appearing then disappearing again, the copepod explosion etc etc etc until the beginner freaks out or panics or stresses about the next step in the tank maturing, only to find out that it's perfectly normal and very very common, lol

[Geoff]

unfortunately you are correct. "everyone" does talk about the nitrogen cycle when first starting up a system. i am hoping that more and more people would start explaining the entire tank cycle to new aquarists. places like TRT will help get the knowledge out so that it will become common knowledge to SW aquarists and this knowledge will be passed on to those just starting the hobby. i think this will greatly help the success rate of those getting into SW systems.

G~

[tdwyatt]

Jerel's vortex at the bottom of the ocean...

[ktellerman]

I am in the process of cycling a new 28 gal Nano Cube HQI. The tank is in its 3rd month. Live rock/sand. Will eventually be a reef system with corals and fishes. I just added my cleanup crew last week. Even after quarantine, the rock has developed filamentous algae. Not a major problem - yet. Should I wait for the crew to do their jobs before freaking out? How long? I've read that raising the magnesium level will inhibit growth of bad algae. The water quality tests perfectly - I use DI water for top-offs and mixing with salt for changes. Any thoughts on what to do??