Water Yellow In Color, Need Honest Answer

[drozhenbane]

TDS?
total dissolved solids?

New to the lingo here...

[drozhenbane]

I took matters into my own hands. I did not change the water, I did not use RO water. Instead I decided to save what I already had. I had a 10 micron filter, and a 1 micron filter, and 50 lbs of argonite sand. So added them all up, I placed my 10 micron sock into my 1 micron sock, I filled the last 4 inches of the 1 micron sock. I filled it with 4 inches of sand, 3 inches of bioballs,3 inches of activated carbon, and 1 more inch of sand. I started a syphon into the sock, and used my fountain pump to catch the leftovers back to the tank.

So far from what I notice I am winning the war, and I can finally see my rockagain! Its been 3 hours now, and I think my redneck filter will work. Not forever mind you, but for now it will. will post pics soon......

[tdwyatt]

Originally Posted by drozhenbane

...So far from what I notice I am winning the war, and I can finally see my rockagain! Its been 3 hours now, and I think my redneck filter will work. Not forever mind you, but for now it will. will post pics soon......

Keep in mind that the bloom occurred as a result of available algal nutrients, lighting, and no herbivory of the algae (probably moot for this pelagic bloom now) or competition for the nutrients. All the filtering will do at this point is to aid in clearing the water, possibly acting to export the nutrients locked in that biomass (of the algae). You have not addressed the causality of the problem, which is as listed above: availability of nutrients for the algae to bloom and no competition for the nutrient load. This does not deal with issues associated with the lack of macroscopic/microscopic herbivory of the algae nor with biodiversity in the tank that would control much of the bloom in the presence of small nutrient loads (this is what your system will be going to as it matures). Much of the diversity you would be looking for only comes with system maturity, and it may mean that you need some sand from a well-established system to seed your sand and rock with these organisms (heterotrophic bacteria and algal grazer like copepods, etc. present in the rock and benthos of mature systems). I don't fault you for attempting to filter out the algae, but be aware that physical filtration provides extra well-=oxygenated habitat for the bacteria responsible for deammonification/nitrification of waste ammonia, and although this is a necessary part of developing system maturity, speeding it along by providing extra nitrate load (a result of running physical filtration with lots of nascent ammonia) at this point may ACTUALLY make the bloom worse. Unless this nitrification of the ammonia occurs in proximity to anaerobic beds of denitrifying bacteria (like deep in the live rock or under 5cm of sand), it only will contribute to the total water column levels of nitrate, and will be available to feed algal blooms before it will be available to diffuse into these anaerobic locations for denitrifictional export as N2 gas.

More important at this time is controlling availability of nutrients that CAUSE the bloom by limiting their formation and import. Unless you have some sort of phosphate, nitrate, and silicate magnet to remove these elements from your current water column, you will be better off by exporting the entire water column you have now and replacing it with ASW made from RO/DI that has a TDS of zero (you may need to treat the plain RO water from your work with a deionizing column, easy to do¹). Eventually, you will want to get your own RO/DI system, as all RO membranes re not created equal…³ It may seen wasteful to discard all the water and salt you've already made into ASW, but it is the only reasonable means of removing these nutrients before the next step of algal succession begins (hair algae), which is much more difficult do deal with. Fortunately you seen to have dodged a bullet in that you don’t have a Cyanobacteria issue... Using any water with dissolved solid in it ends up concentrating these solids in the tank as the water evaporates and the solids remain behind. Each gallon of top-off just adds another gallon’s worth of elements to your system. As most Muni waterworks add poly-phosphates to their mains supplies to prevent conduit corrosion, you already have a phosphate issue to start with when using mains water (or for that matter, plain RO, as PO4-- is fairly small and will go through the RO membrane, a good bit of PO4—get taken out by the DI cartridge ²).

You have made progress with the use of the skimmer and switching over to better source water. I am not familiar with the skimmer you are using. Unless you got lucky and ended up with a really nice DIY skimmer, I would suggest getting a skimmer of higher efficiency (buy one used off of one of the Internet's reef sites' used equipment forums, I am sure folks will post with which skimmer is their personal favorite). A good skimmer would clear the algae and the nutrients the algae contain within a day, solving both your nutrient issue and filtering the water, exporting the algal biomass as skimmate. The skimmer would also remove the organics in the water column that contributed to this bloom as well. Reusing this old water is not impossible, but you would be better served by getting rid of the stuff it contains before it leads to further issues with your system. The cost you will pay for new salt and the effort to make up new ASW would be well worth avoiding the issues continued use of it will bring.





1.http://www.spectrapure.com/St_di_systems.htm
2.See: http://www.spectrapure.com/faq_p0.htm about half way down rejection rates for phosphates
3.http://www.dow.com/liquidseps/prod/tw30_181275.htm

[Phishnoob]

Well that sums it up. Neat, sweet and petite(1)

(1) Chris Berman, Monday Night Football Halftime Show

[drozhenbane]

wow wyatt, nice reply! took me a while to take it all in. very informative! I agree the mechanical filtration is only robbing peter to pay paul, and I am really only using it as a last resort to buy more time till payday. The skimmer I got seems to work now I got the bugs out of it. It has done a nice job of clearing the water, but that doesnt solve the issue of how I got into this mess in the first place! I would like to get my own RO/DI unit but cash is a little short at the moment so trying to make due with what I have available. I just dont want my whole system to spiral into a smoking wreckage.

Personally my gut tells me, do a 100% water change, put the fish in the old water in a foster tank till the parameters are right, and then transfer them over. Get rid of my old substrate its obviously too large in size from what I read. Once I have a solid idea of exactly what I need, thanks to you good people here! Redo the entire setup, and hope I do it right this time, and not what my LFS wants me to buy!

Which brings my next question.....

Substrate....

I used Argonite sand in the past, and I ended up with a mess! The particles even after "washing it" kept the water cloudy for almost 2 weeks, it never really settled out. So I guess I had a bad run with sand in the past, bad luck on my part I am sure. I see alot of videos with people using sand, I like the idea of sand. I guess my next question is.....

If I were to start from scratch, and wanted to make sure my system worked correctly, what should I use? Brands, Sizes, Systems, you name it, what really works? With so many options and so many opinions I am kinda spining my wheels, and drowning in options. From your own experiences, trials, and errors, what would you all reccommend?

Sorry If I kinda come off as frustrated and all, but I didnt take up this hobby to kill things. I really feel terrible when something in my care dies. Doesnt really say much about me for allowing it to happen.

[Fat Tony]

Unfortunately, sand does that. The best advice I can give you is to run a canister filter with some really some small micron filtration for a few days. It clears the water right up.

You are on the right path. I do recommend however that you use distilled water from like walmart and not tap for the waterchange. It will give you the best water to start with. Do you have a good LFS near you that you can purchase purified water from? That would be another good alternative.

[drozhenbane]

My LFS is terrible, its a Ma and Pa shop, Walmart carries a larger selection of fish than they do.

[drozhenbane]

Ok,

I quickly abondoned the filtration idea, it didnt work. Got me a TDS meter and tested the water at work with the RO unit, found it be 16 PPM. Aquafina tested a 64 for comparison. So I bought a zero water unit, and ran it through ended up with a 001 reading on the TDS meter.
Did a bunch of water changes, wish I woulda known then what I know now!
Also looked at the reason for the bloom in the first place. I use radial dial timers for the lights, and found out after talking with my wife that sometimes the lights would come on at 3 AM till almost 6 PM.......
Problem 1
Also I have been feeding the fish a staple diet of frozen brine shrimp as reccomended by my LFS. I was told 1/2 cube every other day. Again 2 small clowns and 1 yellow tang. Also have a attack pack of snails/hermits/ onyx crab *no longer living.
Problem 2

So I have done these things to correct it....
1 Bought digital timers for lights 8 hours a day 9-5
2 Purchased a Filtration system that includes a DI unit using RO water
3 Switched to instant ocean Salt
4 Purchased a UV sterilizer
5 Purchased a much better Canister filter using Carbon/Zeolite/Phosban
6 Purchased a dried staple food with weekly brine shrimp treats
7 Improved the Protein Skimmer, it works great now, but gets fouled after about 36 hours.

End result.... I still have alot of excess nutrients, but they will be corrected soon enough. I have noticed a huge improvement so far, and THANK YOU for everyone that posted to assist me!

I plan to do a huge water change, and replace the substrate, to finalize the deal. My question is before I go gung ho, and do a 100% water change, with everything put into a "surrogate tank".

What substrate should I use?

[three90s&125sump]

A lot of people recommend that you use an oolitic (suger sized) sand but I have tried to use it in the past but the detritus just sits on top and the sand clumps up due to very low pH with in the sand. I like to used a sand that has a partical diameter of between .5 and 2 mm. A specific name and model is "seaflor special grade reef sand" its very common and fairly cheap. Then mix some oolitic sand in with it at a 3 reef sand to 1 oolitic ratio. Be sure to rince all the sand off thouroughly or you'll have a cloudy tank again.

You should prolly start a thread about swapping out your sand. Its not as straight forward as you might think.

[tdwyatt]

Originally Posted by three90s&125sump

...a partical diameter of between .5 and 2 mm. A specific name and model is "seaflor special grade reef sand" its very common and fairly cheap...

You should prolly start a thread about swapping out your sand. Its not as straight forward as you might think.

agree, I have to clean out my MR-3's every 4 to 6 days, more often if I don't keep them clean.

[drozhenbane]

Just for a finishing of the thread note here.....


Of all things used, and the ideas posted greatly appreciated!

For my own experience however, the 18 watt UV sterilizer has been god send! Once I plumbed this baby into my filtration system, BOOM all algae gone!

I found one on ebay for $35, it was a hong kong knock off. The first 2-3 days no real change in water clarity, then all of the sudden.... I could see again! I know the UV unit doesnt solve any problems that lead to the bloom in the first place, but it did kill it. I have made steps to remove the algae bloom in the first place, and I advise anyone with the same problem that may stumble across this thread....

1- USE RO/DI water *It does matter trust me!
2- Use a good canister filter! I used charcoal, Zeolite, and Phosban
3- Use a trusted salt mix, I use Instant Ocean products now
4- Do not feed frozen cubes as a staple! Get a good dried staple, feed frozen sparingly!
5- Use a good protien skimmer!
6- Use a UV sterilizer, you may not need it all the time! But can kick butt when needed!

Thats my 2 cents......