tuesdays question

DebsSisterFlo · 11-08-2005, 03:19 AM

hehe, or is it still really late monday?

Anyhoo... I'm reading about anemones that can kill each other, or get killed by things close to them, etc. What I'm wondering is if the zoo's and polyps can kill or be killed? How do you know how to set up your aquascape so that everyone lives peacefully?
Thanks!
oh, I'm also wondering about my star polyp and my mushroom anemone? I really don't want to lose that 'shroom!

Geoff · 11-08-2005, 03:40 AM

everything has some kind of defense mechanisms. remember corals, jellyfish and anemones are all cnidaria. almost all have nematacysts. that way if something touches them they can sting it and hopefully persuade it to move.

try not to put them to close to eachother.

anemones are problematic in the fact that they have the annoying habit of going float-a-bout on ya. bounding around the aquarium stinging everybody.

G~

Loverotties · 11-08-2005, 07:14 AM

that's the thing with Anemones they move and knock things over and/or sting things,just keep an eye on them!

skeety · 11-08-2005, 08:51 AM

exactly!

When placing corals, you need to keep this in mind. Some are more agressive than others. But with MOST corals, you're lucky in that where you put them is where they stay! But keep in mind...they DO grow...usually up and outward, and you should think of this when placing them.

And everyone mentioned the major problem with anemone's. They have the ability to move around (albeit at a snails pace, but still).

You CAN get lucky and/or train it to stay in one place...but it's never guaranteed. To do so, you can spot feed it when it's where you want it to be. But if it moves, don't feed it. And after a few days, you can (try) moving it back to where you want it, then immediately (after a few min) spot feed it again. The key to the sucess of this method, is WHERE the spot you're trying to train him is. It needs to be well lit, moderate flow, and generally, a spot that the anemone would find benificial. Think of it as not really training the anemone to stay put...so much as making a suggestion that this spot is not so bad.

Placing corals correctly (IMO) is an art that will be a MAJOR determining factor in your success with them. While there are many important aspects to coral care...in MY opinion, placement is the MOST important thing.

Research each coral prior to purchase and ESPECIALLY prior to permanent placement. Some coral can form sweeper tenticles (mainly at night) that will reach out and ZAP neighbors. Keep this and your direction of flow in mind when placing that coral. Some form shorter sweepers...some can form tenticles that are over a foot long. All things to keep in mind.

Each coral grows differently too. YOu need to keep it's future growth and formation in mind. Putting a cup-forming coral towards the top of your tank, right undre your lights might be what is good for THAT coral, but might not be a good idea for the others. Especially since as he grows, he might form a big upside down umbrella that blocks out valuable light to all the corals below.

Throw in the mix that each coral has specific lighting and flow requirements and you'll find that placing corals correctly is actually one of the more tricky aspects of this hobby.

My advice...do the research...and find a way to put corals in places but not permanently. This allows you to experiement. Read up on the coral and make an educated guess as to where in YOUR tank would give the coral what it needs. Try the spot for a few days to a week...if the coral isn't responding...try another spot.

All the while, minding it's neighbors.

While there are many reasons why people's newest corals don't make it, I feel that 90% of the time, it's due to improper placement.

But that's just my 2 cents worth! hehehehe

HTH...more questions on this?

skeety · 11-08-2005, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DebsSisterFlo

oh, I'm also wondering about my star polyp and my mushroom anemone? I really don't want to lose that 'shroom!

about your specific corals...I'll tell you what I know about them, and you can use this info to determine the best placement.

If your tank parms don't dip into fatal territory, BOTH will florish. And before you know it...they'll be growing in places you don't really want them to.

I have a GSP that came on as a frag about your size, and it's now grown to cover an 8 lb rock. in 6 months!! It's driving me nuts, cause it's SUCH a beautiful coral, and I LOVE to watch the tenticle mass sway in teh current...but it's starting to take up valuable real-estate for other corals.

They aren't very chemically agressive (somewhat...but by comparison, not that much). Instead, they tend to compete by overgrowing their opponent.

So my suggestion? Place it in a spot where it can grow...but then run out of rock to grow on. Either put it next to a smaller rock, both of which form an island of sorts in your substrate. This will allow it to grow on the other rock, then it'll run out of room. (at which point, it WILL manage to find another way...but one that will make it easy for you to trim)

As for the shrooms...kind of the same thing, only these guys are a bit more chemically agressive. And...techinically, they can move too. But usually don't...not more than an inch or two...unless they are in a REALLY bad spot.

Others will chime in more on 'shrooms, as I don't have any and feel a bit hypocritical giving advice. But based on what I know, I'd give them room to grow...and while it's new, and you love it...I wouldn't put it at the top of your tank. More towards the base. They are prettier when they get intense light...but those areas are real-estate you'll eventually want for other corals too!

yardboy · 11-08-2005, 09:37 AM

I hesitate to tell you how I feel about shrooms, since I like their appearance too and Genie really likes their looks, but now knows how they can be. They can and will kill sps corals with just contact. Other corals they don't seem to hurt. And they will spread all around the tank, and they can be harder to kill than majano's and I haven't been successful in eliminating them from my tank.

DebsSisterFlo · 11-08-2005, 12:36 PM

sps corals? I don't know what that is. Thanks for all of your oh-so informative replies! I still need to get that book so that I can try to id all these guys. So they're gonna grow grow grow! That just gives me incentive to change over my 38! haha! Nooo! haha!

skeety · 11-08-2005, 05:27 PM

See this post for a good (somewhat in-depth) answer to what SPS, LPS and Softies are:

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/sh...9&postcount=10

DebsSisterFlo · 11-08-2005, 07:18 PM

ok... well that's a start. I'm going to learn this stuff, I am! I am going to bid on that Aquarium Corals book that was recommended to me, I can get it for $20.
Oh, I have an old vacated shell in the tank, and I'm pretty sure another mushroom is actually growing out of that shell! It's kinda cool looking, but much smaller than the small ones that I bought.

skeety · 11-08-2005, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DebsSisterFlo

ok... well that's a start. I'm going to learn this stuff, I am! I am going to bid on that Aquarium Corals book that was recommended to me, I can get it for $20.
Oh, I have an old vacated shell in the tank, and I'm pretty sure another mushroom is actually growing out of that shell! It's kinda cool looking, but much smaller than the small ones that I bought.

YEAH! Great book!!

it's half coral reference book, half everything you need to know about reef set-ups and equipment. Very good book!!

YEAH!

Dudnerd · 11-08-2005, 08:19 PM

IME, Research combined with trial and error. First research the coral so you know it inside and out and generally know how potent it can sting other coral. Then, with out using your prized corals, experiment what corals can live side by side. even if to corals react to echother, the will not be permanently harmed. But occasionally they are so experimenter beware. I personally like small groupings of different species together instead of the usually suggested +/- 3 inches. The only thing about placing coral side by side is it must be a coral that you are able to trim down.

DebsSisterFlo · 11-09-2005, 12:51 AM

how do you trim a coral?
Another quick question... can any corals or mushrooms, polyps, zoos, etc... can any of them hurt a person if we touch them? I know you have to be careful with those spikey um, landmine lookin' things, argh what are they called, I know this one too! lol!

superwizbang · 11-09-2005, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Think of it as not really training the anemone to stay put...so much as making a suggestion that this spot is not so bad.

ROFL skeety!

Deb, bite the bullet and pick up a nice little copy of 500+ Essential Marine Invertebrates among others. It will give you a quick glance at all "standard" inverts (corals and critters) with pretty pictures.

-Ken

tdwyatt · 11-09-2005, 02:25 AM

Eric's (Borneman) book on Coral husbandry covers this topic in detail when reviewing each group of organisms, an excellent resource for just about anyone with a coral reef tank.

As far as establishing a barrier for anemones, build a bommie separated from the rest of the rock and the walls by at least 30 cm of aragonite sand. Make sure tht it has good outcroppings of rock with good places for the foot to be placed out of the current, and stick to rock anemones rather than sand anemones (BTAs especially are good for this type of isolation). Best location will be one where there is current blowing by a hole in this type of location, the nemone will place its foot in the hole and expand out into the edge of the current to gather light and to capture food.

HTH

Geoff · 11-09-2005, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DebsSisterFlo

how do you trim a coral?
Another quick question... can any corals or mushrooms, polyps, zoos, etc... can any of them hurt a person if we touch them? I know you have to be careful with those spikey um, landmine lookin' things, argh what are they called, I know this one too! lol!

you can be stung by several corals. most of the time it feels like velcro, but if it hits an open wound, whoa nelly, it hurts. it feels like a jellyfish sting. i have been stung by bubble corals, carpet anemone, and Elegance coral.

zoas are very toxic. it is very important to wash your hands after any contact with them. if you have kids or pets it is very important that you wash any buckets that you may have had the zoas in. there are many cases of pet deaths after drinking the water left in a bucket that contained the zoas. their palytoxin has been used by natives for centuries on darts for hunting prey.

G~