tuesdays question

DebsSisterFlo · 11-01-2005, 10:10 PM

I was told to keep asking questions, so here goes.

I know it is WAY to early to even think about it, but now's the time to start researching and learning. Once my tank is cycled (3 weeks into it so far, how long will it take?) how long do I need to wait before I look into getting inverts? What are good for a beginner, and where is a good place online to order? Is it a good idea to order critters like this online, sight unseen, or should I keep going to my lfs, the one I trust?
I do not even know what I want, or what is right for my tank at this point. All I know is that I want something colorful!!! I currently have lace rock topped with live rock (see pics in the link in my sig). I have a watermelon goby and a hermit crab.
Oh, also, when can I add a shrimp, and should it be a regular ol' cleaner shrimp or something else? Can I have a banded coral shrimp? I really like the looks of those!
Thanks!

VWD · 11-01-2005, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DebsSisterFlo

I was told to keep asking questions, so here goes.

I know it is WAY to early to even think about it, but now's the time to start researching and learning. Once my tank is cycled (3 weeks into it so far, how long will it take?)I like to wait a few months or even more. I never get in to big of a hurry, But You are getting near the time that the tank will be ready for sometihing. about 6 to 8 weeks is what most people do. 8 weeks better and test water before adding.Then do a good 25 % water Change. and do biweekly WC's if you can. how long do I need to wait before I look into getting inverts? What are good for a beginner,Coral bandit shrimp do pretty good as a first most will be good along with hermits and where is a good place online to order? Is it a good idea to order critters like this online, sight unseen, or should I keep going to my lfs, the one I trust? LFS is good as is online with some of our sponsors.
I do not even know what I want, or what is right for my tank at this point. All I know is that I want something colorful!!! I currently have lace rock topped with live rock (see pics in the link in my sig). I have a watermelon goby and a hermit crab.
Oh, also, when can I add a shrimp, and should it be a regular ol' cleaner shrimp or something else? Can I have a banded coral shrimp? I really like the looks of those!Yes as I stated 8 week or more is best.Just take it slow and enjoy it. You don't have to stock it all at once.
Thanks!

Loverotties · 11-02-2005, 12:18 AM

Vince covered it great!

Doug1 · 11-02-2005, 12:22 AM

I dont recommend a Coral Banded shrimp with a small goby

reef_noob · 11-02-2005, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug1

I dont recommend a Coral Banded shrimp with a small goby

Yeah, they'll grab whatever they can. I have one, but he is confined to the refugium.

DebsSisterFlo · 11-02-2005, 12:31 AM

Will the shrimp try to eat the goby? Thanks so much for your answers Vince!

reef_noob · 11-02-2005, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DebsSisterFlo

Will the shrimp try to eat the goby? Thanks so much for your answers Vince!

They have been known to grab slower moving fish such as gobies. I even saw pics of a goby that was eaten alive by a BCS (weird...)

Geoff · 11-02-2005, 03:42 AM

when dealing with LFS, you need to be very restrained from impulse buying. most LFS will order fish for you. this is a good thing, so you can fine tune your system to what you want, not to what happens to be in the LFS. LFS also tend to get things that they can sell, which may not be the best thing for you, or for most people really.

CBS are mean motors, go with peppermint shrimp. they are easy to keep and nice to other critters.

G~

jagt48 · 11-02-2005, 09:54 AM

I had a coral banded shrimp and he killed at least one goby for sure, and also two peppermint shrimp within 24 hours of getting them.

skeety · 11-02-2005, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff

when dealing with LFS, you need to be very restrained from impulse buying. most LFS will order fish for you. this is a good thing, so you can fine tune your system to what you want, not to what happens to be in the LFS. LFS also tend to get things that they can sell, which may not be the best thing for you, or for most people really.

CBS are mean motors, go with peppermint shrimp. they are easy to keep and nice to other critters.

G~

DEAD on advice!!

I KNOW how hard it can be to walk out of the LFS w/out buying a fish...but if they don't have what you went there for, it's SOO what you need to do.

It took me a while, but I now have what I concider a completely peaceful tank. All the fish are great with each other, and I have no problems with things disappearing, fighting, getting stressed, sick, killing the rest of the tank...etc

And while it was hard NOT to get that new, really neat fish I'd never heard of, but was sOOOO cool in the store...I can now say that...in the end, it was SOOO worth it!!!

the point of these tanks is supposed to be beauty, and stress-reduction. nothing uglier than critters picking away at a dead fish, and nothing more stressful than trying to get that SOB damsel out of your fully stocked tank.

Now...on to your question of the day! (VERY glad you followed the advice! It'll help...I assure you)

There really is no exact Time table on when you can add fish. The ball-park time tables given to you are based on average times to cycle your tank. The TRUE answer is this:

you can add critters (details to follow list) when all of the following are true:

your ammonia levels were high, but are now zero
your nitrIte levels are now zero, after being high soon after your ammonia levels started comign down
your nitrAte levels are now below 10 (ideally closer to zero) after being quite high while your nitrItes were coming down.
And most important...ALL of the above are now zero (nitrates close to zero)...and HAVE been steadily for some time (some time being anywhere from 3-4 days to over a week...this is YOUR call. My advice...at least week).

The above things are proof that your (nitrate) cycle is complete. (this does not mean your overall cycle is complete...that can take 6mo's, 1 year..even longer)...a topic for another discussion.

anyways...when you have satisfied all the elements in the bulleted list, you are now safe to add critters. This usually takes about 1-2 months, but I've seen it happen in less than a week. ALL depends on how cured the LR is. But let me elaborate on the "adding critters" part.

There is the kind of critters you CAN add...and there's the kind of critters you SHOULD add. Can add critters include almost ANY fish, and any crustaceans. SHOULD add is a hard question to answer.

I recommend you have an idea of which fish you want in the end already drawn up. I then recommend you add the LEAST agressive fish first. As if you add the more agressive fish first...when you go to add the more passive fish, there will be problems. Think of a fish's agression as something that's normally there...but is exaggerated based on it's comfortability in it's surroundings. A new fish, while agressive, might be more leary..until he feels safe. A fish that's been there a while, will defend his territory to the end.

That said...take your list...get the least agressive fish on that list.

Also get a clean-up crew. You can choose from snails, crabs, etc.

If you get hermit crabs AND snails...make sure the snails are CONSIDERABLY larger than the hermits. And every couple months, add some empty shells that are a little bigger than the hermits are at that point. This will keep them from killing your snails.

INVESTIGATE any crustacean you are considering. SOme are freindly, some are MEAN AS HELL, and some are oblivious (my fav).

one final note, and then I'll stop babbling. When adding anything to your tank, PLEASE...PLEASE add gradually. (doesn't really apply to your clean-up crew unless you're getting some big critters).

try not to add more than 2 fish at a time. I recommend just 1, but I understand that sometimes this can't be avoided. i.e. mated pairs...really good deals...impulse buys (which you should stay away from)...etc

Each time you add anything alive to your tank (fish, crabs, corals, etc) it will prompt a new cycle. It will be very small and undetectable with gradual stocking...but if you add too many things for the given volume of water...the cycle can be big enough to harm everyone in the tank.

Also, don't add more than 1 or 2 fish in a 2 week period...this allows the new life (and it's wastes) to be handled by your system. (the mini-cycle to complete).

That's all for now....but if you have more specific/detailed questions, please ask away, and we will be VERY happy to help!!

Good luck!!

gwen_o_lyn · 11-02-2005, 10:41 AM

This is really interesting what I'm reading here!! I have come to the conclusion that my goby was eating the shrimp!! I bought about $100 worth of cleaning shrimp- mostly the coral banded, and one fire cleaner shrimp- they would all disappear within a week. So the goby died this spring, and just last month, I decided to try shrimp again since I never knew who was eating the shrimp. I bought 4 peppermint shrimp (they are small compared to the previous shrimp I had tried.) I didn't have much hope for them, but they were only $3.75 each so it was worth the try. I know for sure at least 3 of them are still there, its possible they are all still alive, but they are hard to find. Finally I am able to keep shrimp alive now that the goby died. So in my tank I think the goby ate the shrimp!!

Geoff · 11-02-2005, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwen_o_lyn

This is really interesting what I'm reading here!! I have come to the conclusion that my goby was eating the shrimp!! I bought about $100 worth of cleaning shrimp- mostly the coral banded, and one fire cleaner shrimp- they would all disappear within a week. So the goby died this spring, and just last month, I decided to try shrimp again since I never knew who was eating the shrimp. I bought 4 peppermint shrimp (they are small compared to the previous shrimp I had tried.) I didn't have much hope for them, but they were only $3.75 each so it was worth the try. I know for sure at least 3 of them are still there, its possible they are all still alive, but they are hard to find. Finally I am able to keep shrimp alive now that the goby died. So in my tank I think the goby ate the shrimp!!

what kind of goby? most do not have mouths big enough to eat a shrimp. wondering if you had an evel crab in there somewhere.

G~

DebsSisterFlo · 11-02-2005, 01:39 PM

I could hug you guys, you know? Ok, so I do know that my tank is tiny basically, so I can't have many fish. Since I have the watermelon goby already I need someone friendly to him, and I am thinking that a purple firefish would be a very good addition, yes, no? I think they're gorgeous (I love purple!). Peppermint shrimp or a basic cleaner shrimp, what do you think, and how many? What about starfish, I asked about this before and I think I was told that a brittle star would be a good addition.
What about sponges and the like? I don't think I want to tackle an anemone, but I would like to add something that stays small enough for this tank but will really add a flash of color and interest.
I have seen those pics of 20's that look like 100 gallon tanks! All that STUFF that's growing and looking SOOO beautiful!

Brent Cone · 11-02-2005, 02:19 PM

NO! your tank is your little part of the ocean! and what ever you do with it it will always be yours, no matter how big or how small.
Brent.

wharyat · 11-02-2005, 02:34 PM

Sponges require a very well established tank. They also grow on their own when the tank is mature, I started getting some great sponge growth after about a year (closer to 16 months). They will only grow where they want to tho (moderate flow, very low light)

Watermelon goby, do you have it's classification or a pic? I can't find anything about them. If it's a little clown goby, that's great; the firefish will be a fine addition. Anything bigger than a clown goby, you will need to be very up to date with waterchanges.

Peppermints or cleaners are fine, although peppermints can start eating hermit crabs later on. I would go with cleaners.

On starfish, the tank needs to be mature. (8 mos. to a year)

Good attitude on anemones, very difficult, and IMO a euphyllia sp. is just as good.