Sponsor Our Community
Go Back   The Reef Tank > Reef Discussion Forums > General Reef Discussion

General Reef Discussion In this forum we discuss issues related to keeping marine and reef aquariums in a friendly flame-free environment.


Registered Members don't see these ads. Register now it's free!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-25-2001, 02:43 AM   #1
fredly
Little Fishy
 
fredly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: California Central Coast
Posts: 77
Question

Treating the Symptoms


Hello Everyone,

Ever get tired of having the doctor treat your symptoms and never cure the problem? I feel like the bad doctor right now. I recently had a bout with low pH and discovered that low Alk was a prime suspect. It tested way down low with the Red Sea kit - somewhere between 1.1 and 1.7 meq/l near as I could tell. I added (over about 2 weeks) and entire 250g container of Kent superbuffer and the problem was cured - for about a week. Alk was up to 3.2 and pH 8.4 then the Alk dropped gradually all the way back to 1.7. I bought the big tub of Superbuffer this time and it seems I'm adding about a teaspoon of the stuff every day (average over time) to maintaint Alk at 2-8 - 3.2. I just keep adding the stuff and it keeps getting used up somehow. I cannot help but think that I'm treating the symptom while the problem goes unchecked. Besides, I hate adding chemicals to the tank. I'm always afraid I'll over do it and kill the whole thing.

Tank is 110 gal and I do not have a DSB - only about 1" of crushed coral on the bottom and ~ 100lbs of LR totally encrusted with coralline. I could add a barren rock to this tank and it would be solid purple in 2 months. I periodically dose Kalk and calcium is always 400+. Only fish are 1 Carribean Blue Tang, 1 maroon/gold clown, 2 3 stripe damsels, and a coral beauty. Tank's been running for about a year now. Nitrates are ~0. I do periodic water changes too. In fact, the last time I mixed up a batch of water I tested it - Alk was only 1.7. What could the "problem" be??

Thanks,
Fred
Registered Members don't see these ads. Register now it's free!
fredly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2001, 05:32 AM   #2
tmncali
Little Fishy
 
tmncali's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Southern California
Posts: 178
Hello,

I may be totally off on this, but from what i can find in books here it seems they say to drip Kalk, calcium additives, two part additives which i think might b B-ionic(not sure) or calcium reactors. so you could use a buffer to keep levels elevated. So i guess that is what you could do. I am dripping Kalk24/7 very slow drip. and my ALK test indicates high(i need to buy one that is more specific.)and i forgot to buy a calcium one.

HTH
tony.

our water has low buffering capabilities?..just a thought
and what type of corals you have may have something to do with it? some one might have a more specific answer for you (means someone who has had a tank for a while)
__________________
inventor "RED GRAVEL REVERSE FED UGF METHOD"

Last edited by tmncali; 09-25-2001 at 05:37 AM.
tmncali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2001, 08:56 AM   #3
Spanky
The Border Collie Mod
 
Spanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: right now? in my chair
Posts: 13,218
Images: 2
Fred,

Our tank takes 1-2 tbs of Superbuffer a day. It will depend on how much you feed, coralline algae, sand critters, bio-load, etc etc.
It doesn't sound to me like yours is out of line. Blue tangs produce a lot of waste though.

Your salt mix might not contain enough buffers or it could just be your test kit too.

HTH
Jerel
__________________
Clifford TRT's Mascot -->
Spanky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2001, 05:27 PM   #4
tdwyatt
senior member
 
tdwyatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Walnut Grove, SC, USA
Posts: 13,594
Images: 3
I don't think your system's consumption of alkalinity is out of line. Keep in mind that the consumption of bicarbonate ions as well as the utilization of CO2 as a byproduct of animal respirations is the primary source of the Carbonate in stony coral skeletons. Not only is alkalinity responsible for maintaining the pH of seawater, but it is also half of your supply of minerals to the sinks represented by coral biomass. Photosynthesis has an effect on this as well. During the day, photosynthesis is higher than respiration, resulting in a net consumption of CO2, raising the pH of seawater in systems where there are corals, the greater the number of corals/photosynthesis, the larger the consumption of bicarbonate ions:

Ca++ + 2HCO3- --> CaCO3 + CH2O + O2

Whereas at night when photosynthesis stops, the 2 equations combine due to continued (although at reduced rates) calcification and respiration of corals and macroalgae:

Ca++ + 2HCO3- + CH2O + O2 --> CaCO3 + 2CO2 + 2H2O

So that during the night, some of the bicarb is consumed to make the latticework for coral skeleton (boy, deep subject here) and prepare the calcioblastic tissue for the deposition of CaCO3 during photosynthesis. The stoichiometry of these two reactions is further skewed due to the buffering effect of seawater and photosynthesis of plants/macroalgae, such that the buffering capacity in a closed system becomes a consumable item, rather than a balanced product of the open sea. As calcification/skeletalization occurs in corals and coralline algae, alkalinity will be consumed until it reaches a level where it becomes a limiting factor in the growth of those organisms that consume it. This does not take into consideration the loss of alkalinity due to neutralization of organic acids that are the byproduct of decomposition or animal respirations (fish, benthic infauna, bacterial respiration, etc.)

If you are using up the buffer at the rate you have stated, I would not be alarmed, but elated, as it reflects a measure of your coral growth. I would only be alarmed if your pH were to stay below 8.0 24 hours a day, then you'd have problems. I would stay the course.

Hope this helps, Lemmeno if you need more info on the calcification info, bicarb is an essential to this process. There is a good review article by McConnaughey and Whelan in Earth Science Reviews (1996) that gets into some of the newest thinking on skeletalization and calcification in corals, pretty good review article if you can get it.
__________________
Tom <"))))>(
(TDWyatt)
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. -Plato

Last edited by tdwyatt; 09-25-2001 at 05:32 PM.
tdwyatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2001, 11:11 PM   #5
fredly
Little Fishy
 
fredly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: California Central Coast
Posts: 77
Thumbs up

Thanks for the info - and reassurance. I guess the buffer is just going to be part of the routine. Hey - if it works I can't really complain, can I? All my critters are happy and I'm the one that's stressed! Anyway, thanks again for the information!



Fred
fredly is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
blue tang , calcium reactor , coral growth , coral skeleton , coral skeletons , coralline algae , crushed coral , dose kalk , drip kalk , dripping kalk , stony coral



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Sitemap:1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190
Sponsor Our Community

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Our lawyer tells us that, by pressing the "New Thread" or "New Reply" button, you acknowledge that the opinions and information expressed in your article are yours alone and not those of thereeftank.com, dba The Reef Tank. Further, you agree to indemnify The Reef Tank, its moderators, administrators and agents from any and all liability which may arise as a result of your article. (C)opyright 2006 TheReefTank.com