Tips on predator reef please

[motorslave]

Well ive been looking through my books and at alot of web sites and most of the fish im drawn to are listed as being suitable for a preditor reef. What kind of challenges/problems does this ad to the tank compared to a non predator reef? Overall higher difficulty? Very curious as I realy like alot of these fish. I plan on having 3 to 5 fish. Thanks
Robert

[Imaexpat2]

What do you mean by "predator" tank? Are we talking large groupers, eel, or something else?

[Doug1]

Is that pretty much the same as an aggressive tank? Predator reef is kinda vague, most larger aggressive predators eat and poop too much creating water quality issues with more delicate reef organisms. I suspect that they are refering to something along the lines of a predatory fish only with Live Rock as main filter.
I would still think in terms of removing as much waste from the system as soon as possible, or be prepared to do major water changes

[icebear]

Yeah, what are the fish you like? Lionfish? Toadfish? Eels? big fat Puffers?

[motorslave]

They are pretty agressive fish, Ill have to dive back into the sites and books and get some names. I shall return

[Junkzoo]

I'll chime in 'til ya give us some names of fish you are interested in,,,
Predator types: I'm thinking larger ,fish eating fish, Eels, lions, groupers, triggers etc.
a lot of these fish are reef safe,,,some,,,,
most are not safe in a reef and/or with smaller fish, inverts etc.
Along with the smaller fish/invert eating problems, if you are interested in the "predator" types, i would say tank size, filtration,(got a 180 w/lion, trigger , puffer, two eels,+ etc. ) filtration can be a concern. being that these types of fish eat a lot, and are messy doing it,,,,
My 180 is "reefless", no LR /inverts/small fish etc. ,but some people do have these kinds of fish , with lets say, live rock, and maybe a few living orgs in the tank, mushrooms,zoo's, gorgonians etc.
also, with a predator/large fish set-up, water quality is a ongoing concern,so LR and "reef" type stuff might suffer in a tank like that,without overdoing filtration.
My 180 takes a "hit" when i feed tankmates in there,every couple of days , "like they need to be fed",so would not want to have non-fish livestock in the tank during these water quality "swings".
not sure if this is what you are wanting to know, but maybe i hit on a few questions you might have had,,,,

[dwall174]

Originally posted by Doug1
most larger aggressive predators eat and poop too much creating water quality issues with more delicate reef organisms.

I’ve also been curious what types of corals could be kept with an aggressive tank with like eel’s, lions, & triggers, etc. I would imagine that the corals would have to tolerate the higher nitrates & phosphates associated with an aggressive tank because of the waste they create?

[Imaexpat2]

The problems I see in a "aggresive" tank are filtration, clean up crew.

With an eel if it aint glued down...its moved around and knocked over. Bad news for any corals. Groupers, if its not heavy...expect it to get knocked around a good bit, especially if its not on the bottom. I feel like "skimming" is not optional but required if corals of anytype are in the mix. I think live rock is recommended in my opinion.

I currently have a large tank with a 8 inch Miniatus Grouper and a Jewel Moray Eel and a large Yellow Tang. I am able to keep some large snails for clean up crew. My tank has Live Rock, mushrooms, Xenias, Toadstool Leather, Zoanthids and Starbusrt Polyps. My water goes through a overflow into a large container with filtration material then to a 75 gallon refugium jammed packed with Cheato algae and is "skimmed". I have 440 watts of VHO on it. (I am using 48" bulbs vice 60" bulbs becuase I already use 48"ers and didnt want to have to deal with the logistics of having a third size VHO bulbs around. That allows me to buy serveral bulbs at a time and avoid the excessive surcharge for "oversize" shipping size.) The lighting on this set up is 2 x 50/50 and 2 x 03 Blue. I feed moderate amounts of food to the Eel and Grouper 4-5 times per a week so that the water doesnt swing too wild on me. This set up has worked sweet for me, looks nice (at least I get about as much "Ooh-Ahh factor" out of it as I do my eye popping 135 with big stupid dollar SPS corals!) too.

Just some ideas.....

[motorslave]

Okay, well brfore I even get the names of the fish some valid points are raised. Since I am a beginner and I would feel pretty stupid If I crashed a tank right away do to biting off more than I can chew I think Ill keep it simple and and go with easier hardy fish that are tried and true. i.e... Clowns bleu/green chromis and one or two other docile smaller types. Thanks, once again feedback saves the day. (or tank as it were!!)

[Junkzoo]

Originally posted by motorslave
Since I am a beginner and I would feel pretty stupid If I crashed a tank right away do to biting off more than I can chew I think Ill keep it simple and and go with easier hardy fish that are tried and true. feedback saves the day.

Congrats! you may now sit at the head of the class,,,

(trying to put down here some intelligent way to say ,you done good "grasshopper" )
Alot of us that started out just like you,wished we learned that very important lesson as fast as you did.
Way to go!

[Imaexpat2]

hum...Okay, but dont over look some of the nice "aggressive" tank mates out there.

The Snow Flake eels are kinda nice. The Jewel Moray is nicer in my opinion and looks pretty cool. I especially like the Jewel as its shaped more like a moray and less like a snake as the Snow flake is. Its a pretty sharp looking eel and gets to about 24 inches max. They can be trained to hand feed quiet easily and dont hide as much as other eeels.

Miniatus Groupers are smoking hot. There cant be a nicer looking red fish out there. They get a maximum of 16 inches, much smaller than the potential 27 inches of a Panther Grouper. They display very nicely in the tank as well. Unlike most groupers which will sulk in hidding the Miniatus is often out and about patrolling his territory. They are ferocious eaters though when you feed them and will gorge themselves in seconds.

The Panther Grouper is a nice one too. My only dislike of this grouper is it will sulk in hiding a lot and as it gets bigger its black dots will fade somewhat which is kind of a bummer. It has the potential to get huge as well.

There are several other groupers out there that are really nice looking. In addition there are the triggers as well, some which can be quiet striking in thier coloration. Need something a little smaller...there are several varieties of Lion Fish out there too.

Just know that if you get some of these, your filtration will have to be top notch if you add much in the way of corals. Your lighting expenses will increase as well. You will probably get far more veiwing pleasure with less intensive lighting from your tank mates using NO lights or some VHO. Some of the more hardy softies will do fine under that lighting, so a bit of a reef tank is not out of the question.