thoughts on sump modifications?

[mcliffy2]

I'm thinking about some mods to my sump, and looking for input whether they will actually work. My sump is pictured below (stock photo). it is pretty much taking up all the space under my tank and the ASM G2 takes up most of the room on the left side.

1. The first thing is I'm going to raise the skimmer up w/ a PVC stand so it isn't submerged as deeply. How deep should I aim to have it submerged?

2. I think I would like to add 2 baffles to make an additional bubble trap (the foam serves as a bubble trap pretty well). Due to some overjealous beginner plumbing, my tank doesn't leak, but its pretty tough to remove the sump (and get it dried out). Is there a way to add baffles underwater (its acrylic), some sort of DIY way? doesnt have to be pretty...

3. If I could add baffles, is there a way to create a small fuge (like half the middle chamber)?

4. If not a fuge, could I add a phos-ban reactor in the middle section or somehow fit one in there?

5. Any other ideas?

Thanks in advance.

[Fly Guy]

Get the shop vac out and a towel...you will be able to get it plenty dry to take some weldon # 16 and add some baffles.

A phosban reactor takes up zero space in your sump....it can hang on the outside....... outside of ANY side.

If you are up in the air on a fuge or not......i will go with this thought and say NO fuge. I would also recommend eliminating that sponge altogether as it shouldnt be needed with proper baffles and sump flow. Cut the last baffle out completely. Your return pump will go there...unless that bulkhead pictured is for a external return pump. Then add a couple of baffles next to the one by the skimmer section. Keep 2" in between them, and 2" under the "under" baffle and it will give the baffles plenty of time to do what they are supposed to whcih is kill your bubbles so you can get rid of the sponge that you need to clean every couple of days so it isnt a nitrate factory.

Also.......that first baffle next tot he skimmer should be an inch or so taller than the last "over" baffle. This way the water level will NEVER change in the skimmer section making your skimmer skim consistently as to how you set it.

[mcliffy2]

I have the pump already in the last chamber, and the sponge isnt tooo bad w/ nitrates I don't think...not sure how to describe it but its a very wirey makeup...not like a normal sponge. Would be nice to get rid of it, but there isn't really a way to remove the baffle in there. I guess I'll try and see if it makes a difference.

Why so against fuges? I kinda like the idea of breeding pods down there to stock my tank.

[Fly Guy]

oh...it didnt look as though a submersible retun pump would fit there. In that case......the last baffle doesnt matter. I would still add 2 baffles next to the first and get rid of the sponge. Just something else to clean.

I dont like fuges for the same reason. Just something else to clean, and it will just release nutrients as it absorbs them. I dont need them for pod production so i see no benefit to using them. JMO

Even with adding two baffles, you would still have room for your fuge in between. Maybe even add another baffle before the last one to make sure the fuge stuff stays in it and not in your return pump.

Ideally a fuge should be getting water before the skimmer though. When you say "fuge", do you mean the full on sandbed fuge or just some macroalgae??

[fyrfytr1717]

In regards to your skimmer height question, most everything I have read recommends that ASM skimmers be used at a depth of between 8-10". I built the skimmer chamber in my sump with a baffle height of 9" (yeah, I'm way behind on my tank-build thread.)

Baffles start taking up space real quick like and you may find you are left with no room for a fuge anyway. Also if your fuge is in-line after your skimmer the depth of your fuge is limited by the height of your skimmer baffles so it may not end up being very deep. There are many people who don't care for fuges here on TRT (and they seem to be the people that have a lot of experience) however I designed one into my sump and am going to give it a shot. No sand, just live rock and macroalgae. If I don't like it, it will just become extra return area.

When setting up your baffles, your skimmer chamber's outer wall is your 1st over baffle, figure 2" for your under baffle, and another 2" for your 2nd over baffle and you have very quickly used up 4-5" of your sump once you factor in the thickness of your baffle material. Like FlyGuy said, make sure that your first over baffle is your tallest to keep your water level constant in the skimmer chamber. Mine is only 1/2" taller but I'm hoping that will be sufficent given my bubble trap's 13" length... I hope... Fly Guy? I guess I'll find out when I put some water in it!

[mcliffy2]

I was thinking some miracle mud in a chamber, so I was thinking in the middle section after the added bubble trap, of dividing that section in half (with a baffle at 90 degrees to the others) so water would flow through half as normal and have it go through the fuge slower on the other side. That might be getting ambitious in a small space tho...

[mcliffy2]

oh and on the phos ban...there is ZERO room outside the sump on any side really...I've seen them in sump, how exactly do set it up tho, does it need another pump? and if so, would that introduce more bubbles?

[fyrfytr1717]

Your other option would be to create a separate space for your fuge area using about 1/2 of that middle space. Make it whatever height you want so long as it dumps into your return area and is completely separated from your skimmer area. You would then have to split your drain line and direct part of it into your skimmer and part into the fuge. This is basically how I have mine set up. I'll show you a picture tomorrow when I get home (at work until 8am) if you are interested. I found this to be the best way to avoid the which comes first (skimmer/fuge) question that Fly Guy alluded to earlier... Skim first and you are taking all the nutrients out of the water that the macro needs to grow, fuge first and you skimmer skims out all the pods that your fuge produces. Side by side skimmer and fuge eliminates this problem.

I know ZERO about phosban at this point in my reefing experience...

[Fly Guy]

Originally Posted by mcliffy2

oh and on the phos ban...there is ZERO room outside the sump on any side really...I've seen them in sump, how exactly do set it up tho, does it need another pump? and if so, would that introduce more bubbles?

It can go anywhere inside or out......it just hangs off a lip somewhere.

They create no bubbles. A small mini jet can run them...they need roughly 200-250 gph. I actually run them off of my return pumps. I just T off of my return lines and then T off of that again with 2-1/2" ball valves. One valve feeds my chiller, and the other feeds the reactor. I only use my phosban reactors to run carbon every now and then....but same difference. In essence 1 pump has the capability of doing 3 jobs. If you dont have a chiller then just one T and ball valve and it will do the job of 2 pumps.

FWIW....i had an issue with rowaphos on my bb tank......i wont ever use it again on any tank. But...to be sure. I used to use it all the time with no issues on my dsb tanks. Thats why now i just use the reactors to run carbon

[mcliffy2]

Originally Posted by fyrfytr1717

Your other option would be to create a separate space for your fuge area using about 1/2 of that middle space. Make it whatever height you want so long as it dumps into your return area and is completely separated from your skimmer area. You would then have to split your drain line and direct part of it into your skimmer and part into the fuge. This is basically how I have mine set up. I'll show you a picture tomorrow when I get home (at work until 8am) if you are interested. I found this to be the best way to avoid the which comes first (skimmer/fuge) question that Fly Guy alluded to earlier... Skim first and you are taking all the nutrients out of the water that the macro needs to grow, fuge first and you skimmer skims out all the pods that your fuge produces. Side by side skimmer and fuge eliminates this problem.

I know ZERO about phosban at this point in my reefing experience...

After reading through that, I'm thinking there isnt really room for an effective fuge, so I'll concentrate on getting the bubble trap in...also need to figure out how to make that lift for the hood...I'm getting really sick of having to take the hood off the tank. did you get that link I sent you about that? definitely post some pics, I'm interested to see how the build is going.

[mcliffy2]

Originally Posted by Fly Guy

It can go anywhere inside or out......it just hangs off a lip somewhere.

They create no bubbles. A small mini jet can run them...they need roughly 200-250 gph. I actually run them off of my return pumps. I just T off of my return lines and then T off of that again with 2-1/2" ball valves. One valve feeds my chiller, and the other feeds the reactor. I only use my phosban reactors to run carbon every now and then....but same difference. In essence 1 pump has the capability of doing 3 jobs. If you dont have a chiller then just one T and ball valve and it will do the job of 2 pumps.

FWIW....i had an issue with rowaphos on my bb tank......i wont ever use it again on any tank. But...to be sure. I used to use it all the time with no issues on my dsb tanks. Thats why now i just use the reactors to run carbon

rowaphos...is that what people typically use? I was at an LFS (actually its a guys basement he runs a rare corals shop out of, www.darklordcoral.com, really awesome stuff) and he was singing the praises of something in a phos-ban. I had never really heard of it before...but his private tank was probably the most amazing I've ever seen, so it peaked my interest. What was the issue you had?

[Fly Guy]

Originally Posted by mcliffy2

rowaphos...is that what people typically use? I was at an LFS (actually its a guys basement he runs a rare corals shop out of, www.darklordcoral.com, really awesome stuff) and he was singing the praises of something in a phos-ban. I had never really heard of it before...but his private tank was probably the most amazing I've ever seen, so it peaked my interest. What was the issue you had?

the issue i had was iron burn on a handful of sps Rowaphos and Phosban and there is a new one out i forget the name.....they are all GFO's. Granular ferric oxide=IRON. They are far better than the rest of the phosphate absorbing media which is aluminum based.

Like i said, i have use rowaphos and phosban in the past lots with no issues on DSB tanks. My theory is that i had the sandbed there to absorb any excess iron........in my BB tank there was nothing to absorb it and it created problems. Made me wonder how bad it had been all along but just not enough to notice with the sandbed buffer.

JMO, and i know other people use it on BB tanks with no issues.......but I have my systems set up efficently enough that i just dont need it nor the risk of running it.

[afbengochea]

Yeah Ive read that both have their drawbacks so u have to use the lesser of the two evils if the phosphate is bad. Ive never used any of the two just because of stories like fly's that Ive heard of corals getting burned

[fyrfytr1717]

Originally Posted by mcliffy2

After reading through that, I'm thinking there isnt really room for an effective fuge, so I'll concentrate on getting the bubble trap in...also need to figure out how to make that lift for the hood...I'm getting really sick of having to take the hood off the tank. did you get that link I sent you about that? definitely post some pics, I'm interested to see how the build is going.

Just took a look at that link now, must have missed it when you posted it before. Looks pretty cool. I'll have to leave a couple of feet of slack in the power cords for my lights in case I want to do that in the future. How big is your access door anyways? I'm hoping that with my door being about 11"x40" I'll be able to access most of what I need to without taking the canopy off. I guess I'll find out soon enough. Sorry, don't want to hijack your thread... anyways, I'll try to post more on my tank build tomorrow. I've been taking pictures along the way but have been spending my free time at home working on the tank instead of writing about it. I usually only have time to post when I'm at work but then I don't have my pictures with me...

[afbengochea]

Originally Posted by Fly Guy

oh...it didnt look as though a submersible retun pump would fit there. In that case......the last baffle doesnt matter. I would still add 2 baffles next to the first and get rid of the sponge. Just something else to clean.

I dont like fuges for the same reason. Just something else to clean, and it will just release nutrients as it absorbs them. I dont need them for pod production so i see no benefit to using them. JMO

Even with adding two baffles, you would still have room for your fuge in between. Maybe even add another baffle before the last one to make sure the fuge stuff stays in it and not in your return pump.

Ideally a fuge should be getting water before the skimmer though. When you say "fuge", do you mean the full on sandbed fuge or just some macroalgae??

On mine I have the fuge (just macro algae) after the skimmer. I know that the skimmer isnt going to be able to process all the water that comes from the tank so I figure the cheato will catch anything left. The way I figure is that if the cheato doesnt get much nutrients .... oh well its there to suck anything out, if it never grows then its a good thing since that would mean that my water is really clean