The Rebuild Begins!!! - Page 11

gitsumpottery · 01-23-2006, 11:37 AM

tom, good to see you got back in good time. it was quite a bundle that Geoff rolled thru the returns at Lowes the next day!

geoff, i have almost everything plumbed for my new tank, and I should be switching over tommorow night (Tues.).

I will have extra 1" if you need some smaller pieces.

zac

Geoff · 01-23-2006, 12:32 PM

Tom- when i start building the new skimmer i was looking for some sheet PVC to use instead of acrylic. acrylic cements OK to PVC, but i was looking for a better, stronger bond. so, what is your water heater plan?

the only reason i hesitate about the sump swap is, sometimes it is nice having something that big to do a major fix if a serious problem arrises.

then again finding a spot to hide a 50g is a lot easier than that 100g monster.

Zac- that was pretty quick!! if you could wait till Thursday, i am free after work on that day to help with the move. i am bit by bit figuring out exactly what i need to finish the plumbing out.

G~

tdwyatt · 01-23-2006, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff

...so, what is your water heater plan?

Either move the water heater into the crawl space (I saw several good locations, most are prolly closer to the kitchen or the bathrooms. These will save energy by being closer in proximity to high use areas and make the wait time for hot water calls from the heater shorter) or just cut a section of the "block shelf" out and pour a little pad of concrete and move it back the 2 ft or so needed to clear that little closet under the stairs...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff

the only reason i hesitate about the sump swap is, sometimes it is nice having something that big to do a major fix if a serious problem arrises.

then again finding a spot to hide a 50g is a lot easier than that 100g monster.

Just lemmeno, I am using the two that I have to support an empty 72"'x15"x24" tank that I will be moving into the study as the stony prop tank (it is a drilled Oceanic LFS glass tank, so scraping the coralline will not end up ruining the viewing panes). For all intents and purposes, they might as well be sawhorses...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff

...I am bit by bit figuring out exactly what i need to finish the plumbing out...

just send a photo of the mantle top...

Geoff · 01-23-2006, 03:17 PM

here are some more pics. since i am home with a sick kid (Alex) i get some time here and there to play on the system.

Note to anybody wanting Tom to come and help. keep Sharpie markers away from him. as you can see there is a lot of information about each hole up there.

this is what the Ampmaster CLS will look like. this is a loosely fitted mock up of the final assembly. in order for it to fit i have to bottom out all of the fittings. the return (the horizontal set of pipes) has a little play, but not much. the inlet on the other hand needs to be dead on.

i am hoping to find a little play in the tank hole position, but is not looking great for that either. i may have to put the tank on a foam board just to give me a touch of breathing room.

the final pic is of the two Velocity CLS's. this is just the input side. the output will be easy. 3/4" tubing is cake compared to all of that 2" stuff. this assembly will go on a shelf that will be above the Ampmaster CLS return. the shelf will be about 16" above the mantle. the shelf will be short enough to allow my to get my hand in there to reach the Ampmaster return ball valves if i need to. not much room, but enough. this is the only orientation that would work. i feel i need a ball valve in there just in case. if i did not need it than i would have enough room to put the pumps perpendicular to the tank. the union to the left is the return from the sump. another easy plumb. this is going above the waterline so as not to create a siphon. just need to get all of the big stuff plumbed than run this line.

Tom- we have been thinking about putting another water heater underneath the house near the master bath. it takes a good long time for the hotwater to get there now.

are there any concerns about putting water heaters in areas like that? the tall one we have now would not fit. would two smaller ones work just as well? as for nuking the wall, labor intensive is an understatement.

that is a steel reinforced concrete block wall.

G~

skeety · 01-23-2006, 03:27 PM

NO idea what you just said, but MAN does that look AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!

hahaha

(j/k...got most of it...but seriously...I can hear Tim "The Tool-man" Taylor barking in the background. Seriously awesome!!!)

TimmyG · 01-23-2006, 03:29 PM

Geoff, My HWH is under the house and that seems to be pretty common in this area.

tdwyatt · 01-23-2006, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff

we have been thinking about putting another water heater underneath the house near the master bath. it takes a good long time for the hotwater to get there now.

are there any concerns about putting water heaters in areas like that? the tall one we have now would not fit. would two smaller ones work just as well? as for nuking the wall, labor intensive is an understatement.

that is a steel reinforced concrete block wall.

G~

OK, so scratch the wall work (although I do have a torch, we can cut it...

) That was placed as a retainer wall, prolly should not be breeched anyway without making some allowances for whatever support if offers to the rest of the wall/foundation there.

Two High efficiency squat heaters will save you a ton of money in the long run, enough to potentially pay for their installation of two heaters (talk sweet to me, I may come up and do this for you...) In addition, this tax year has tax credits for spending money on high eff. electrical devices/appliances, between the two advantages, they may make it worthwhile to do as part of this project. We can insulate those runs of copper at the same time.

How big is your largest access to the crawl space?

Drop by HD or BLowes and price some of the heaters that qualify for the tax credit in your desired sizes. You'll need to include the cost of running another electrical supply to the new distant (Bedroom supply?) WH as well, not sure whether the cost of the electrical supply will go with the tax credit, but I would think so (check with yer accountant to be sure). I think that the cost of relocating the current WH up to the top of that retaining wall (as a squat WH) would be nominal (elec. rewire and plumbing rerouting, and we could take care of the routing for the popoff valve at that time as well).

That might be an entire weekend though, we migh NEED timmy to push those WH's up on the retainer wall...

tdwyatt · 01-23-2006, 03:51 PM

BTW, at worst, it might be that we will need to place some concrete patio tile under the heater (or a plastic pan) to protect the base of the WH in contact with the ground (will depend on your local code), but doing that anyway is a smart thing to prevent electrolytic corrosion of the base of the WH. As already posted, normal placement is under the house in the crawl space anyway.

...and you definitely get style points on the velocity pump placements!

tims · 01-23-2006, 03:58 PM

ya definitly want the HWheater of the ground,man i really wished i had time to come down now geoff......

tdwyatt · 01-23-2006, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gitsumpottery

tom, good to see you got back in good time. it was quite a bundle that Geoff rolled thru the returns at Lowes the next day!

Heh! I thought about Geoff rolling all the extras through the return line when I saw the HD off the Interstate in Gastonia (NC), he could have prolly used you to help him load all that stuff in the door!

BTW, PM me before the next little plumbing session, I have something for you.

Geoff · 01-23-2006, 07:41 PM

ok Tom, which order would you do the plumbing.

glue PVC fittings than drill the tank, or the other way around? i keep talking myself in circles about this. i guess i have never had to be so precice with my PVC before that i could not fudge a little hear and there.

would like to get the tank drilled before to long so that i can let it sit down in the basement full to check for leaks and cracking.

i hope to start drilling and cementing this week.

at least the tank end. the sump/WH/ Ampmaster area i will sit on and think about while the tank stress tests.

BTW- the boss was not impressed with the idea of moving the WH around.

a good sized shorty would actually fit nicely up on that shelf. this would be a couple of hours work max. all of the lines come from this area. it would be a place and replumb. no need to run any extra tubing or electric. besides the WH is plumbed with the new flex pipe.

the problem is that i still do not think i have a whole lot of room in that little under stair area anyway. so it may be moot. still measuring.

keep the ideas coming Tom, they keep me trying new ideas. could i just dig a hole in the crawlspace and dump the WH in it.

G~

tdwyatt · 01-24-2006, 12:08 AM

On the fitting for the tank, since the location is such a difficult placement, I would think that making template of either fiberboard or plywood the exact dimensions of the back of the tank (including the lip at the bottom/top and the thickness of the glass for guaranteed placement) and the sides would be in order. Finish the plastic fittings as dry fits (no glue), and the pump placements for the top of the mantle, then install the fittings and pumps into the mock up for the tank. It might cost you $25 to make the mock up, but it could save you $50 to $100 worth of PVC replacement if the fittings were glued ahead and in the wrong position.

make your tank mockup
cut all your pipe
dry fit all the pipe into the mock up
disassemble the pipe from the mockup. remove the back piece from the mockup, and use it to mark the back of the glass of the tank with a sharpie
Start boring the glass in the basement and test for leaks when finished with the actual bulkheds in place. Use threaded caps and teflon tape for the bulkheads to test for watertightness
Drink two Guinness and call me in the morning...

On the water heater, you could dig a hole in the crawlspace to set the water heater, but before you commit to this plan, dig the hole first to check for hydraulic issues with the soil there, this weekend would be good time to test this. Regardless, you'll need to dig a drain (just in case) that will slope with at least 1" drop per 8 ft from the base of the finished (3") concrete pad to an outside wall or a french drain (again, depends on code) where you'll either need a sump or enough drop to get outside the building if any water were to collect in this low spot location for the WH.

Get biiizy with that shovel!!!

gitsumpottery · 01-24-2006, 07:09 AM

i looked around a little and saw pictures of flat pvc caps, maybe those might be the route to go if you can find them? I'll keep looking. I saw a picture of a 6" flat one that was used for a base for a lamp, so they have to be out there.

Thursday might be a good day to move all my livestock over. I am going to finish plumbing tonight and then fill with Ro water and let it run for a day or two so Thurs would sound good. I might need that epoxy putty if you have any...

Zac

Geoff · 01-24-2006, 09:40 AM

Zac- i will check on that putty tonight and let you know. heck i have to run by the L word to get a couple of fittings, so i will pick up one anyway just in case.

G~

tdwyatt · 01-24-2006, 11:12 AM

BTW, GEoff, don't do like I did and put together a stand and light combination (fixed) only to discover that when you put the styrofoam under the tank, it increases the height of the installation by 3/4 of an inch...

I ended up installing the tank WITHOUT the styrofoam...