tdwyatt Question on Salifert test?

[Fishturd]

Tom,

I bought the rest of those Salifert we talk about. I added the CAL and the ALK test to my Salifert test kit. I remembered you help me out with MAG test, I belive you said what ever the number is out the buttom of the plunger,(example 0.25) you said to subtract it from 1.00 then to times it by 1500. I'm just asking because when i look at there directions it doesnt say anything about subtracting the 1.00. I just did my CAl test and I followed the direction that says, when the color has change turn the syringe upward and read the postion of the upper end of the black syringe part. Mine on the CAL I get at 0.15 and for my ALK its at 0.55. What do you think?

[Fishturd]

hmmmm?

[tdwyatt]

Originally Posted by Fishturd

Tom,

I bought the rest of those Salifert we talk about. I added the CAL and the ALK test to my Salifert test kit. I remembered you help me out with MAG test, I belive you said what ever the number is out the buttom of the plunger,(example 0.25) you said to subtract it from 1.00 then to times it by 1500. I'm just asking because when i look at there directions it doesnt say anything about subtracting the 1.00. I just did my CAl test and I followed the direction that says, when the color has change turn the syringe upward and read the postion of the upper end of the black syringe part. Mine on the CAL I get at 0.15 and for my ALK its at 0.55. What do you think?

There are two means of calculating what your readings are from the syringe reading.

For the Alkalinity test, in step 5 of the instructions:

Originally Posted by KH/Alkalinity Profi Test (Salifert)

Hold the syringe with the tip facing upward and read the position of the, now the upper end, of the black part of the piston. The syringe has graduations of 0.01 ml. Read the KH or alkalinity value from the table (note: this is method 1-tdwyatt) or calculate as follows (the scond method-tdwyatt):

KH in dKH = ( 1 - reading as per above) x 16
Alk in mEq/L = ( 1 - Reading as per above) x 5.71

If you have chosen the lower resolution method, multiply your calculated results by 2.

The chart referred to in the directions above are printed on the Instruction sheet provided with the test kit.

If your syringe read that the amount left in the syringe was 0.15 ml, then the chart will put your alkalinity at 13.6 dKH, or 4.85 mEq/L

To calculate your value with the formula:

( 1 - 0.15) x 16 = 13.6 dKH alkalinity

( 1 - 0.15) x 5.71 = ~4.85 mEq/L alkalinity



For the calcium test, in step 6:

Originally Posted by Calcium Profi Test (Salifert)

Hold the syringe with the tip end facing upward and read the positionof the, now the upper end, of the black part of the piston. the syringe has graduations of 0.01 ml. Read the calcium value from the table or calculate as follows:

PPM Ca+ = ( 1 - reading in step 6) x 500

If you use the table, your value for 0.55 would be 225 PPM calcium ion.


To calculate using the formula,

(1 - 0.55) x 500 = 225 PPM calcium iion


Continuing to add more calcium over the next several days will precipitate calcium carbonate, removing whatever Ca you add, but dropping alkalinity gradually until you reach a level where alk and Ca ion concentrations form an appropriate match, at that point, if Mg is sufficient, salinity at least 35 PPT, and your conservative element proportions are good, then you should be able to push your concentration to the 400 Ca and alk of 8-10 dKH, however, treat the patient, not the symptoms. Unless there are obvious issues with your ca and alk and they affect the health f your corals and/or fishes, I would proceed slowly until you have what you want.


Remember that NSW is between 375 and 400 (usually at the lower range) and alk is in the 7.5 to 8 range (2.65 to 2.85 mEq/L)

[Fishturd]

Thanks for explaining that. I got my numbers wrong. My CAL was at 0.20 - 1.00= 0.80 x 500 = 400 And my ALk was at 0.55 - 1.00=4.5 x 16 = 7.2

Sound better, sorry for the mix up

[tdwyatt]

yes, definitely, coming into the sweet zone, do you have many stony corals?

[Fishturd]

i have 3 or 4 i Believe

[Fishturd]

I have clams, a few green plates, Gonapora, candy canes, Cabbage leather, some Xenia, Acropora, Button Polyps, and if i told you how much i got them all for you just about die. Since my ALK is at 7.2 dkh would you raise it with baking soda?

[tdwyatt]

Just checking, look to get your Ca and alk both balanced, then start using Kalkwasser to all your top off, it will supply the things you need to maintain your levles once you ge them balanced.

Pix on the tank please!

[Fishturd]

ok, when i do mix the Kalkwasser for my top off water just mix it in Straight RO or mix Salt RO mix and how much would you mix in a 5 gal jug?

[tdwyatt]

1 to 2 tablespoonsful per gallon of RO/DI water, NOT SALT WATER.

This is a replacement for your top off water, so any extra salt in the solution will just increase your tank's salinity. Mix the solution vigorously, allow it to settle, then pour off the clear solution above the settled powder and drip exactly 24 hours worth of evaporation into an area of rapid flow (iinto an overflow for RR tanks) over 4 to 6 hours. If you have an auto topoff device, just make a saturatied solution and cover the surface of the solution with a few styro peanuts and a sheet of saran wrap cut to the diameter of your top off reservoir. This provides both the auto top off and auto ca and alk. Be aware that kalk precipitate in the bottom of the reservoir may ruin a owerhead over time, so be sure to either elevate the pump from the bottom, or only use the clear solution.

[Fishturd]

Thanks like always Tom!

[tdwyatt]

Yw

[drsyme]

Originally Posted by tdwyatt

1 to 2 tablespoonsful per gallon of RO/DI water, NOT SALT WATER.

Tablespoon? Is that right?

[tdwyatt]

"Tablespoonful" is correct, we're not looking at making a solution in which the kalk dissolves, we are looking at making a saturated solution of the calcium oxide/hydroxide. Depending on the hardness and temperature of the water used to mix the Kalkwasser (yes, unfortunately some are still using tap water) and the extent that the solution is agitated prior to use, anywhere from 1.3 to 1.6 gms of calcium hydroxide will dissolve in each liter, or around 6 gms per gallon. In reality, this is just a little more than a teaspoonful of pharmaceutical grade calcium hydroxide, but when using pickling lime, or most of the hobbyist grade products, the space taken up by impurities (usually insoluble clays and miscellaneous quartz or feldspar impurities) may volumetrically push this to the tablespoonful range to assure adequate saturation of the solution. Although some manufacturers may suggest less, the best results will be seen at this mixing rate, especially if you're using a kalkreactor to make your solutions, as the excess precipitate can be harvested for its calcium hydroxide content.

The accepted procedure to mix Kalkwasser is to add one to two TABLESPOONSFUL of pickling lime per gallon of RO/DI water, to vigorously agitate the solution, and allow the solution to settle for a few hours, then siphon or decant off the clear supernatant solution to acquire the saturated solution while leaving behind the precipitate, usually a mix of the insoluble clays, feldspars, etc. as mentioned before, and the excess Ca(OH)2 and whatever nascent CaCO3 that has formed as a result of the presence of CO2 in the mixing water and interactions occurring at the surface of the soution.


These particulates are NOT DESIRABLE in the final solution for several reasons. When adding the saturated Ca(OH)2 solution to marine aquarium water, there is an immediate increase in local pH to the 10 to 11 range (pH of the kalk solution is around 12.3 to 12.6 depending on variables we won't address here). The initial effect of this is to drastically reduce the solubility quotient (Omega) of Calcium with respect to carbonate/bicarbonate and phosphate ions. This is the initial cloudiness seen at the mixing interface when Kalk is added to ASW. Usually this is rapidly redissolved as the pH rapidly drops again as dilution reduces the local effect of the hydroxyl ions on the ASW. However, if we introduce the particulate CaCO3, we now have a foci for Calcium carbonate precipitation, and the presence of large amounts of these particulates may result in a systemwide "snow" of calcium carbonate, as these particles from the kalkwasser will have relatively little MgCO3 present initially to slow the crystallization process (the "Poisoning" of the calcite crystal via the presence of magnesium carbonate flock.) This will be especially true in the high pH microenvironment surrounding the area of these additions of fine particulates. The majority of the CaCO3 in Kalkwasser will form either as it precipitates and form part of the sludge, or will gradually form as a "crust" on the surface of the solution. The presence of excess amounts of Ca(OH)2 helps to precipitate dissolved CO2 in the freshwater without affecting the levels of saturation achieved in the initial solution formation. The use of closed system Neilssen reactors avoids part of this problem (they exclude atmospheric CO2), and allows for a continuous mixing of the excess Ca(OH)2 precipitates to allow for exhaustion of the powder precipitate with respect to its Ca(OH)2 content. When using these reactors, it is easy to tell when the Kalkwasser reactor is exhausted, as AM pH values will start to gradually drop about 0.2 pH units at or around a month after filling with fresh Kalkwasser powder, indicating a considerable loss of Ca(OH)2 content.

SSSOOOOOooooo... What quantity of kalk powder we want to add in making the Kalkwasser is not what will actually dissolve, but rather an excess based on what local conditions of the water dictate in order to form a saturated solution that will deliver the expected 1+ grams of calcium per liter. The excesses in both contaminants from most sources of kalk powder and the events that occur in the production of Kalkwasser require that we add from one to two tablespoonsful for most sources of kalk that are readily available to most aquarists.


sorry for the long post, HTH.

ps, those of you that are Yellowjackets fans, the new "Altered States" CD is available today (just received mine from pre-order about 15 minutes ago via USP),

and it is AWESOME!

The Yellowjackets just keep evolving their sound!

[Fishturd]

Tom this would be my first time using the Kalk and I mix it last night in a 5 gal jug but for the first mix I only used 5 1/2 tsp. Is that ok for the first time then next mix move it up to Tablespoonful like you said?