Tank Problems (cyano, crab deaths, tissue necrosis)

Jasontkd · 10-11-2007, 01:31 PM

hey all, I am having some trouble with my 29 gallon. I have cyano bad. It started as a small patch. I blew it off and syphoned, and it came back stronger and worse. much more spread out. So, I did a really thorough cleaning. I scrubbed it off the rocks and syphned everything. it has come back even worse. it is getting everywhere. I ordered some cyano grazing snails and a cyano grazing conch from pacificeastaquaculture.com, but they won't get here till Saturday.

anyhow, I am worried about the health of my sps. I have one frag that is having some tissue necrosis. it is not rapid, but I don't know what is causing it. I hav it mounted to the side of a rock sicking out horizontally. The necrosis is on the bottom where it doesn't get light. is this the cause? about 3-4 weeks ago i ordered a bunch of frags from pacificeastaquaculture.com and was really pleased with them. However, one of those frags had a bout of RTN and I couldn't save it. could they be related?

anyhow;
temp: 80
salinity: 1.025
Ca: 410
Alk 10.3
mag: 1350
pH 8.3

I have a CSS 220 on there and it is skimming well, so i am not sure what could be causing all of this.

Sorry that I am jumping around a lot, just trying to figure out what is wrong

Jasontkd · 10-11-2007, 01:33 PM

Oh, and I have noticed lately that my crabs are either molting or dieing. there are little bodies lying around. Now, I have no idea if they are dead or not because I have empty shells laying around that I put in there, and they hide all over the rocks anyway, so i can't really get a count of them

Twitterbait · 10-11-2007, 01:35 PM

It does not sound like RTN or STN, if you have cyano and your loosing SPS then you have phosphate wicking, check your phosphate levels and do a WC right away. Make sure to check your WC water for phosphates before adding it. Are you using RO water?

Time to upgrade the skimmer big time.

Jasontkd · 10-11-2007, 01:37 PM

I don't have phosphate test. I am not sure how I could have a phosphate problem. I had my rock cycle/cook for at least 2 months before I set my tank up. I do 10% WC each week with 50/50 IO and oceanic, and the Coralife Super skimmer 220 is on a 29 gallon. Why would I need to upgrade my skimmer?

Jasontkd · 10-11-2007, 01:38 PM

all my other SPS are great. they have awesome PE and are doing fine.

Twitterbait · 10-11-2007, 01:39 PM

how much skimmate are you getting? something is wrong with your water quality for sure and it sounds like Phos. it does not take much to set it off so you really need to look. go get a phos test kit right away if you can. are you using RO/DI water for your WC? if not then your water supply is the problem.

Jasontkd · 10-11-2007, 01:49 PM

yes, I am using RO/DI water with 000 TDS reading for WC. Skimmate varies week to week. sometimes, the collection cup is half full, sometimes less.

JennM · 10-11-2007, 02:30 PM

I concur with Twitterbait - it's likely phosphate. Hate to rain on your parade but "cyano grazing-anything" is a myth. Cyanobacter is a bacterium, not an algae. Things might stir it up but nothing I know of actually eats the stuff.

Test your phosphate and nitrate levels - that's what feeds the stuff. Also, what sort of lighting do you have, how old are your lamps, and what's your photo period (hours?).

Not sure about what's causing the SPS failing unless it's related to the presence of phosphate and nitrate... once we get those values we can figure out more.

And even if you're using RO/DI, phosphate and nitrate are byproducts of food and waste. How much are you feeding, what are you feeding, and how often?

Cheers,
Jenn

Jasontkd · 10-11-2007, 02:36 PM

I was feeding formula one, once daily until a week ago, now I have cut that down to 2 times a week.

Lighting is one 150 watt DE MH phoenix 14k run in a PFO mini pendant on a PFO HQI ballast. Also have 2 x 24 watt HO T5 actinics. T5's run from 1:30pm to 10:30 pm. MH runs from 2pm to 10pm. All bulbs are about 2-3 months old

Also, my tank is ony about 2-3 months old (not including the 2 months of cylce/cook on the rocks). could this be causing some of the issues?

Jasontkd · 10-11-2007, 02:37 PM

if it is phosphates, what can I do about them other than skim more and feed less?

JennM · 10-11-2007, 02:42 PM

Skim more, water change to dilute. There's mixed opinions about different phosphate adsorption resins - you might want to check into those IF testing concludes that you have phosphate issues. Keep in mind also that testing might show only a little phosphate - most of it is likely bound up in the cyano. Test before the lights come on in the morning, the cyano dies back a bit overnight and you will probably observe it's at its most abundant after a long photoperiod.

I'd scale back the photoperiod to no more than 10 hours total - perhaps even less - 6 hours on the MH and 8 on the actinics that will help a bit too.

Test for phosphate and nitrate and see what that yields - then we can proceed from there.

Jenn

Jasontkd · 10-11-2007, 02:44 PM

my MH is only at 8 hrs now

Sun-n-Fun · 10-11-2007, 11:33 PM

I'm not a pro or anything, but isn't a cyano outbreak in a relatively new tank normal? I got that impression from many of the things I've read. This article (which just happens to be the easiest one for me to reference at the moment, not necessarily the most explicit about this particular problem) from Eric Borneman makes some mention of it maybe 6 paragraphs down in the denitrification section: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-01/eb/index.php

If it's not normal, then I too have a problem as I'm experiencing a worsening cyano outbreak in my tank setup nearly 5 months ago. I've tested my parameters at least weekly (sometimes more) since I put the first drop of water in and my phosphate and nitrate has been zero since I "cycled". Frankly, I just figured it was normal and while I have been siphoning it out with my water changes, I haven't been going crazy trying to stop it either. I was just planning to let it take care of itself with time.

Jasontkd · 10-12-2007, 12:43 PM

well, I ordered a salifert phosphate test yesterday with overnight shipping because nowhere around me caries anything like that. It will be here this afternoon.

Also, I was looking some more. The only SPS that is losing tissue it losing it ony ont the side facing the bottom of the tank, not getting a lot of light. But, it is losing tissue out toward its tips, not by its base near the rock. If the phosphates 9if that is the problem) is coming from the rock, wouldn't the problem be at the base of the coral

JennM · 10-12-2007, 01:02 PM

Are you sure it's losing tissue on the tips, or is it new growth?

Jenn