Sump Return & Closed Loop Inlets - Confused

Matt_b · 02-07-2007, 12:56 PM

I'm in the design stage for a reef for my conservatory

but am unsure on a couple of things.

My current system has a false wall at the rear of the tank which hides the sump, neat compact idea but a pita to add any equipment so i'm going for an under tank sump

Firstly the sump return, where is the best place to have this? where is your sump return? I'd like to use it for agitating the surface but wondering if it should be lower in the tank?

Secondly ( and this has really got me!) how do you safely feed a closed loop???? its all well drilling holes for the outlets but i'm stuck on a way to get the water from the display to the circ. pump

Some ideas on both would be real good,

pics would be awesome

Matt

dobejazz · 02-07-2007, 01:54 PM

Returns need to be higher in the tank. If they are to low they can suck water out of the display if the power fails.

Closed loops have me baffled as well

Matt_b · 02-07-2007, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobejazz

Returns need to be higher in the tank. If they are to low they can suck water out of the display if the power fails.

Closed loops have me baffled as well

So a good idea to use the sump return for surface movement

Just gotta sort out how I feed my circulation pumps

Dagrape · 02-07-2007, 02:09 PM

Drilling holes for the inlet of a closed loop is really the only safe way to do it. And it honestly doesn't matter where you drill. (providing the do a good job of glueing fittings)

What are you concerns about feeding the pump?

The nice thing about CLS is if and when the power goes out.......the water simply stops moving. There is nowhere for it to go except through the pump and into the tank. And if you can figure out how to do that with no power then you could be a millionaire!

Fly Guy · 02-07-2007, 02:13 PM

I like to bring my sump returns up and over the top....down on the front left and right sides. You can then attach whatever angle of fitting you want to either direct them across for some surface agitation or across your reef however you want. Back siphon is a non issue, as the water simply falls away from your outlets when the power goes off. And the main reason i did it this way, is i dont want to look at any pipes in my displays.....my canopies cover up the return outlets.

As far as your CLS, redundancy is a good thing on the infeed IMO. You really should have 2 bulkheads feeding the pump. Each one of these bulkheads should have the capacity to feed the CLS pump on their own. They then merge and go into the infeed side of your cls pump. There are some considerations on how to do this.......but need to know what pump and more info on what you are thinking

Ill attach a pic to show you what im talking about on the sump return thing. My closed loop design probably wont help you much......i have kind of went a little crazy on it. The sump return is the smaller pipes that go over the left and right sides of the tank

need 110galreef to post some pics of his CLS.......he has a great set up for seeing a little bit simpler idea of how its done

YLChik · 02-07-2007, 02:29 PM

fly - your plumbing pic always 1/2 scares me 1/2 makes me laugh!

Dagrape · 02-07-2007, 02:39 PM

I actually spend more time looking at Fly's Plumbing pics than I do at most display pics! WORK OF ART!

Matt_b · 02-07-2007, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fly Guy

As far as your CLS, redundancy is a good thing on the infeed IMO. You really should have 2 bulkheads feeding the pump. Each one of these bulkheads should have the capacity to feed the CLS pump on their own. They then merge and go into the infeed side of your cls pump. There are some considerations on how to do this.......but need to know what pump and more info on what you are thinking

Sorry flyguy but bulkhead I guess is what we brits call a weir? would this have to be lower than the bulkhead/weir for the sump as there will be more turnover?? Hope i'm making as much sense here

Must admit 2 bulkheads/weirs sounds a safer option

Fly Guy · 02-07-2007, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt_b

Sorry flyguy but bulkhead I guess is what we brits call a weir? would this have to be lower than the bulkhead/weir for the sump as there will be more turnover?? Hope i'm making as much sense here

Must admit 2 bulkheads/weirs sounds a safer option

hmmmm...im not sure i DO follow that. Do you have pics??

If you notice on tht tank i posted a picture of........there is a weir across the entire outside back of the tank that feeds the sump by skimming the surface water for the length of the tank. I call it a external coast to coast overflow box.

pyron88 · 02-07-2007, 03:19 PM

Matt
On a closed loop you don't have to worry about over flow. The water goes from the tank to the pump to the tank. No place for it to over flow. If you use a Weir, that moves your surface water to the sump. You do need to worry about power outage there.

I'm like YLCHIK, the only thing I would really like better would be to add electricity to fly's plumbing, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZIT!!!!!

Matt_b · 02-07-2007, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyron88

Matt
On a closed loop you don't have to worry about over flow

So is a inlet for a cls just a tank connector?

Dagrape · 02-07-2007, 03:30 PM

I may be mistaken but I have the feeling the confusion is around the meaning of Bulkhead vs. wier.

When fly is refering to a bulkhead he is refering to a threaded fitting that is put into the holes drilled into the tank to connect the plumbing.

A wier is typically some sort of divider put somewhere for water to flow over.

Hope I am not in left field here, just thought some definitions might help!

Fly Guy · 02-07-2007, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt_b

So is a inlet for a cls just a tank connector?

yes, otherwise known as bulkhead

The bulkheads feeding your cls shouldnt have any concern for any overflow....it is a closed loop...the water never leaves the system so in the even of a power outage it doesnt matter....water level never changes anywhere. TANK-bulkhead(s)-pump-back to tank

i just postd that pic for a reference on a simple and great way to do your sump returns.........i dont think it helped our communication with the cls bding pictured as well...sorry lol

Matt_b · 02-07-2007, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagrape

I may be mistaken but I have the feeling the confusion is around the meaning of Bulkhead vs. wier.

When fly is refering to a bulkhead he is refering to a threaded fitting that is put into the holes drilled into the tank to connect the plumbing.

A wier is typically some sort of divider put somewhere for water to flow over.

Hope I am not in left field here, just thought some definitions might help!

Your spot on Dagrape, sorry flyguy, i'm a bit lost here which is why i'm using TRT. Starting to get the drift so a tank connector is a bulkhead

Dagrape · 02-07-2007, 03:41 PM

Does this picture help at all?