Sump Refugium

UFGator · 09-06-2001, 11:07 PM

Hi guys. My tank has not arrived yet (shipping company says Monday), but I am all set to get started when it gets here (75g hex, MH/PC, skimmer, sump). I have been thinking about setting up a refugium for the aquarium. Since the cabinet will have little/no room for a seperate refugium I would like to set one up in the sump. I have seen an example on one web page, but I really don't know how big my sump is going to be (the tank comes complete with "reef" setup). Does anyone see a problem with having a "mini" refugium that takes 2 gallons or so out of a sump? I was thinking about putting live sand in there with macro-algea and, once the tank has cycled, "critters". I think the concept looks something like this:

________
| |
|______|
| |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| |*************| | | |
----------------------------------
Inflow Refugium Skimmer
sump w/sand & outflow
back 2 tank

Water would come into the inflow sump and "overflow" over the edge into the refugium. The water would then "overflow" into the final sump with the skimmer and be sent back to the main tank.

My basic question is will this work? Will the overflow into the refugium be too turbulent and stir up the sand? Will all my "critters" be washed away? Has anyone done this?

Thank you in advance. I have been reading this board religiously since I decided to start my aquarium and you all are incredibly patient.

Joel

UFGator · 09-06-2001, 11:08 PM

Ouch! That picture did NOT come our properly. Don't know how to fix it... If you click the icon for "edit post" it looks fine. Of course since it is my post I may be the only one that can edit it... Kind of a vicious circle..

[ 09-06-2001: Message edited by: UFGator ]

Doug1 · 09-07-2001, 01:41 AM

Hmmm it looks like it ought to work if it doesnt wash thru to quickly

I dont know why it doesnt post the drawings as typed

UFGator · 09-07-2001, 09:05 AM

Any thoughts on keeping it from washing through too quickly?

Wrasse Man · 09-07-2001, 09:17 AM

I am not awake yet, so forgive me if I go way of base with this. Couldn't you put a 'Y' connector on the output of the 75, with one arm of the Y going into the 'fuge, one arm going to the sump? You could put a ball valve on each each arm so you could control the amount of flow going into the 'fuge vs. the sump. Then you could figure out a way to have the 'fuge overflow into the sump, where the pump is.

Make sense?
Is this what you were asking?
I need coffee.

[ 09-07-2001: Message edited by: Wrasse Man ]

vulkum · 09-07-2001, 10:18 AM

wrasse man has a good idea there. heres a few pics of what i did.

http://communities.msn.com/vulkumsreefpics/shoebox1.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=50
http://communities.msn.com/vulkumsreefpics/shoebox1.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=51

this one shows the spray bar!
http://communities.msn.com/vulkumsreefpics/shoebox1.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=49

i'm only running about 300gph through there but the macro algae and the live rock slow the flow down so it doesn't disrupt the sand. they say you want slow water movement for the macro algae but whats in the pic grew in 2 weeks. i have to throw half of it out all the time. i keep about 6-8 snails in there that keep some of it trimmed back but not enough. good luck
aaron

nycreef · 09-07-2001, 11:04 AM

i love this board, looks like im going to make a refugium too.i have a 30 gallon sump with enough extra space to do it.how about my skimmier putting the water into the refugium and then it over flow into the sump,will that work or is it backwards?how are you guys seperating the refugium from the sump? also, what kind of lighting is down there? what benefits are there to a refugium? looks like we can embark on this journey together and feed off each other.

UFGator · 09-07-2001, 11:24 AM

Thanks Wrasse Man. I think I understand what your saying, but that would necessitate two seperate "boxes" (1 refugium and 1 sump). Is this a diagram of what you are thinking or were you describing a way to do this with only one "box"?:

www.northernreef.org/images/refugium_plumb.gif

I love the above setup and would prefer to do it this way, but I am afraid that the cabinet for a 75g hex will not have enough room in it for two seperate "boxes". If it does I will do it that way, but if not I am trying to get a good feel for a sump refugium. I actually found a picture of what I am describing at:

www.angelfire.com/ok/dog1/sumps.html

My only concern is that if I were to do it this way I would most likely have a VERY SMALL refugium. Is a tiny refugium better than none at all? Come to think about it, why don't I make the ENTIRE sump a refugium? Would this be possiblel. I think WrasseMan is saying that if I put LR in there I should not have a problem with losing my LS. That sounds like good advice.

Sorry WrasseMan I wasn't able to understand your setup from the pictures. Is that a SEPERATE refugium or is it your sump/refugium?

Nycreef. I have only seen pictures of the skimmer AFTER the refugium. Don't know why this would be. Makes me wonder if the the copepods, etc will just be destroyed by the skimmer before they get into the tank. My reasons for wanting a refugium are mostly to help me control Nitrates plus the benefit of being able to breed "critters" to feed the inhabitants of the tank. My understanding on the lighting is it doesn't have to be anything special, but if you put it on a photoperiod that is contrary to your tank's lighting it will help to stabalize your PH (i.e. you have someone else soaking up CO2 during the night).

Let's keep this thing going. Looks like a couple of us could benefit from this thread. I look forward to reading some answers from you braniacs! [book]

Joel

nycreef · 09-07-2001, 11:42 AM

ok, i have a box in my sump where the water from the tank goes to, then comes out of that box which has filter media in it and into the sump. in the sump is the skimmer and the pump in the same place.what if that box with the filter media was switcted. meaning , takeout the filter media and make it a refugium.my tank is a 110 w/a30 gallon sump.reef and fish. do i need that filter media.i dont have bioballs,does that matter. id love to learn more about the different types of filtration that is suited for me.im redoing my tank so now is the time for me to change a few things around.

nycreef · 09-07-2001, 11:50 AM

also, where should the light be placed, can i place it on the side of the refugium. that would be easier, or does it have to be directly above it.what kind of kit would i need to buy ? be specific please. its for a 110w/30sump

Doug1 · 09-07-2001, 12:11 PM

If you are using the sump itself as a refugium you can put in a divider to seperate the skimmer and return pump from the area with LR and LS or whatever. The other alternative is to just use a slower return pump and use more power heads to get the water movement in the tank

Wrasse Man · 09-07-2001, 03:24 PM

Is this a diagram of what you are thinking?

Yeppers.

I have a 20 gal under my 75. It acts as my 'fuge/sump combination. Basically the overflow flows into one corner of the tank (20 gal) and the mag7 is on the other side. Between the 2 is macro algae and LR. The entire bottom is covered in 4" of Crushed Coral. I will be converting over to Southdown when the main tank's sand is a little more mature.
It isn't the most 'appropriate' way to set up, but it works for me!

As for lighting, right now I just have the lights sitting on top of the sump.
The main reason I went with this setup is that my skimmer is a HOB, so I didn't really need another tank just to put the 2 heaters in.

HTH

[ 09-07-2001: Message edited by: Wrasse Man ]