Sump plumming

[davidt]

I am setting up a new 300g tank but instead of putting the sump under the tank I want to put it in the garage 40 feet away. It is a horizontal run. I am wondering if the water in the pipe will create to much back pressure for the drain to flow fast enough o keep up with the pump?Anyone out there ever try running the sump very far on a horizontal run.ThanksDavid

[leveldrummer]

shouldnt be a problem as long as you have a large enough pipe and it has to have fall to it, at least 1/4 inch per foot. your actually doing better that way, the return pump will be under much less stress than with it in the basement like alot of people have. depending on water flow that you want, 3 or 4 overflows dumping into a 2" line with a little fall to it should keep up with almost anything. the pipe might stay full of water, so your whole system might have a couple extra gallons in it.

[Twitterbait]

I agree. I would go with larger pipe to avoid any issues just in case but otherwise it should be fine.

[Geoff]

this is just about exactly the same way mine is right now. the sump is located 45' away from the tank itself. i oversized the plumbing to allow plenty of air to run along with the water. you do not want a siphon, you want the wate to flow. i have a 1.5" drain on the tank for about 800gph. the run to the sump is all 2" pipe.

G~

[davidt]

I am also worried about the outside temp.

I want to run the pipes outside the house underground.

The pipes will go down 4.5ft out the wall into the ground for 40ft level then up 1 ft into the wall in the garage then 15 ft level then up 1 ft into the sump.

I will insulate the pipes that are exposed but I am hoping the ground temp is more stable than the air temp which ranges from 90's to 20's in the winter. I am making a fish room in the garage so that will have climate control.

Has anybody even run plumbing outside?

Thanks,
David

[Twitterbait]

bad mojo... you will need to insulate the pipe big time plus with all the ups and down you're looking at a real possibility forissues. the drain would run on as a siphon more than a drain and that may cause some bad gurgling and maybe overflows if not done perfectly. with 300gal you will also be running some big time flow too. i see potential for big issues.

[Geoff]

what will the height difference be between the overflow of the tank and the sump? i will PM Tom and see if he sees any issues with this. In college he was a plumber. i know, i know it was many years ago, but i think he still remembers some of it.

G~

[Cuda]

Personnaly I think it's too many issues to worry about and you should just give the tank to your neighbor across the street.

[davidt]

The difference in height from the overflow to the sump should be about the same as if I put the sump under the tank. I just want to have a much bigger sump than what will fit uner the tank. I have 200g tank I bought to mix water changes but now I am think I would love to have a large sump.

My neighbor seems to be getting jealous. Help me make it happen so I can revel in his admiration.

[Cuda]

Originally Posted by davidt

My neighbor seems to be getting jealous. Help me make it happen so I can revel in his admiration.

[tdwyatt]

Originally Posted by davidt

The difference in height from the overflow to the sump should be about the same as if I put the sump under the tank. I just want to have a much bigger sump than what will fit under the tank...

The overall drop is not the issue, rather the amount of run with the uphill turns will be the issue and its inherent frictional losses. The length of the drain with zero net drop will slow your drain flow significantly, acting as a large pool of water with lots of friction (from the pipe) and no aid from gravity to accelerate that mass of water over the distance of the run. Any time the water stops moving, it will require enough acceleration to move that dead mass of water to start the flow again, which may mean that there will be a significant column height of water at the tank end needed to accelerate that water's weight before it will accelerate to the flow rate you think would be generated by a normal drop of pipe over that distance... In addition, all that will be required to lose your siphon (in uphill sections)/flow (in downhill sections) in such a system will be the collection of enough dissolved air degassing inside the pipe (due to the relative slowdown of the water velocity) to generate either a bubble large enough to stop flow, or a bubble large enough to generate enough lift in the oopsite direction to push a volume of water back to the tank. Either of these situations will mean a big flood at the tank end, or at least, an overflow over the top rim of the tank due to a relative slowdown of the system until drain rate catches up with the acceleration provided. Systems with all downhill drains can usually not have such issues, as the flow rate pushes out the bubbles as they collect and are vented before they interfere with flow velocities.


For reliability, you'll need to make sure that all your drain line goes downhill and has vent stacks installed at areas of potential bubble collection to prevent these mini-disasters from occurring. Uphill sections of pipe for a gravity system with a relatively small amount of drop require that flow not be an issue. You might address this question to Mike Fortune (Goodfortune) in Atlanta (ARC forum) for some specifics on how you might get this to work (he is an environmental wastewater engineer, a reef aquarist, and a great guy), however, I would simply advise against it and either go to your basement or stay under the tank for your sump needs if relocating the tank is not an option.

Sorry, probably not what you were looking for, maybe Mike can give you some good suggestion with the use of inline pumps for flow (but this can be a nightmare), HTH

[goodfortune]

David:

Interesting problem...YGPM

- Michael

Originally Posted by davidt

I am setting up a new 300g tank but instead of putting the sump under the tank I want to put it in the garage 40 feet away. It is a horizontal run. I am wondering if the water in the pipe will create to much back pressure for the drain to flow fast enough o keep up with the pump?Anyone out there ever try running the sump very far on a horizontal run.ThanksDavid

[ILLBKING]

My tank runs 27' horizontal, but has 7 1/2' of drop, I used a 2" drain and it returns to the sump at 1800gph.

[tdwyatt]

where are we on this issue???

[Cuda]

Hey Tom. I don't know how often Dave checks the boards, but I talked to him earlier today since he live across the street and I think he's just leaning towards a smaller sump under the tank because of the logistics involved.