Starting a 90 gallon reef tank

pinchharmonic · 04-22-2007, 11:05 PM

Hi everyone!

My goal is actually to have mostly live rock and fish (planning about 90lbs of live rock), with a few invertebrates deemed "easy to keep alive" by my LFS.

Right now the tank is just filled up with filtered water (water purifier from home depot installed under my sink), and I have already added in the heater and the proper salt. I also have my aquaclear 802 powerhead just moving water around

I had an eheim 2227, but read some stuff on this forum and quickly took it out and returned it. Therefore, I am in the process of bidding on an overflow box, and after that goes through I will buy the sump/refugium online as well.

The overflow is probably going to be a CPR cs102 "for tanks up to 250 gallons, flow rate of 1200gph".

Questions:

1.) would that overflow box be overkill for a 90 gallon? I was worried about too much water being circulated into the sump.

2.) What should I look for in my sump/refugium hardware? I've read the debate on bio-balls so i'm unsure about that also. Most of the sump/refugiums i'm looking at are between 15-25 gallon capacit, but some only have room for certain things. For example, some sumps have a space for the algae and sand, and protein skimmer. Others have space for bio/ball, algage and sand, but no protein skimmer -- it's really confusing to figure out which one I should get. THere is a super expensive one that has room for everything. Linked here: http://cgi.ebay.com/36-Pro-Eco-Refug...QQcmdZViewItem

3.) Live sand - can i make my own? Can I start out with deadsand in my tank and eventually it will colonize with stuff to be considered live sand?

4.) I read here also about creating dead space with eggcrate. Is that necessary?

5.) I also read about the invisible live rock lifts, how necessary is that? Personally I think it looks rather artificial, but the health of the organisms in my tank is above the look.

Sorry! I know this was a very long post. I'm a totally noobie to saltwater, but i've had freshwater for many many years. Freshwater seems like a walk in the park compared to this!

Thanks!

thekid55 · 04-22-2007, 11:14 PM

first off hey welcome to TRT

no bio balls nitrate factory.
your sand will become live within a month of your tank being up dont worry about that. you dont need a live rock lift but some people dont like there rock touching the bed. you dont want dead spots in your tank thats the opposite of what you want. i had a CPR on my 120 and hated it. i would get it drilled or a overflow box. flow = good

dobejazz · 04-22-2007, 11:57 PM

Welcome to TRT !

Loverotties · 04-23-2007, 12:00 AM

Yes Welcome to TRT!

Fly Guy · 04-23-2007, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinchharmonic

Hi everyone!

My goal is actually to have mostly live rock and fish (planning about 90lbs of live rock), with a few invertebrates deemed "easy to keep alive" by my LFS.

Right now the tank is just filled up with filtered water (water purifier from home depot installed under my sink), and I have already added in the heater and the proper salt. I also have my aquaclear 802 powerhead just moving water around

This water purifier is not the same as an ro/di unit. I would suggest looking into a real ro/di unit that will prvide you with product water yielding zero tds(total dissolved solids). Clean water going in is one of the most important things we do, as well as something that we truly do have full control over. Take advantage of this. its important.

I had an eheim 2227, but read some stuff on this forum and quickly took it out and returned it. Therefore, I am in the process of bidding on an overflow box, and after that goes through I will buy the sump/refugium online as well.

The overflow is probably going to be a CPR cs102 "for tanks up to 250 gallons, flow rate of 1200gph".

Questions:

1.) would that overflow box be overkill for a 90 gallon? I was worried about too much water being circulated into the sump.

That overflow box is perfect for your tank IMO. I used to use the same one on a 90. Keep in mind that just because it can handle 1200 gph, doesnt mean you need to push 1200 gph through it. Oversize is good. What you push through it should be determined by the size of your skimmer. I.E. If you skimmer cna process 500 gph, then there is no reason to push more than 500 gph through your sump.

2.) What should I look for in my sump/refugium hardware? I've read the debate on bio-balls so i'm unsure about that also. Most of the sump/refugiums i'm looking at are between 15-25 gallon capacit, but some only have room for certain things. For example, some sumps have a space for the algae and sand, and protein skimmer. Others have space for bio/ball, algage and sand, but no protein skimmer -- it's really confusing to figure out which one I should get. THere is a super expensive one that has room for everything. Linked here: http://cgi.ebay.com/36-Pro-Eco-Refug...QQcmdZViewItem

Definitely no bioballs. Your live rock and good flow will provide all the biological filtration you need. All that is really necessary is a place for your skimmer, a few baffles and a return pump. A sump can be made fairly easily and economically by either picking up a new or used glass tank, or a new or used acrylic tank and installing the baffles yourself. A spot for a refugium can be provided as well. Personally, I dont like refugiums, and think they are more of a dirty PITA than they are worth, but lots of people do like them and what they provide for them.

Before deciding on a sump, you should first decide on a skimmer, and then build the sump around it, as that is the primary function of a sump.

If money isnt so much of an issue, i would recommend a Euroreef rs-180 for your tank. If you want to go more economical but still do a good job, an asm G-3 or Octopus NW 200 would work great.

3.) Live sand - can i make my own? Can I start out with deadsand in my tank and eventually it will colonize with stuff to be considered live sand?

Yes, in fact it is best to start with new dry sand. It will become live soon enough and be lots cheaper. If you want to start fresh, then you should start fresh IMO.

4.) I read here also about creating dead space with eggcrate. Is that necessary?

No. Stacking your rock as openly as possible is the goal, and getting good flow through it. Egg crate or acrylic rods can help with this inbetween the rocks, but not necessary.

5.) I also read about the invisible live rock lifts, how necessary is that? Personally I think it looks rather artificial, but the health of the organisms in my tank is above the look.

Lifiting your rock is very beneficial. For several reasons. 1. To help get good flow throughout your reef. 2. So your rock cant wick up any phosphates from the sandbed, potentially creating algae issues in the future. 3. No amount of sandshifting by any critters will ever affect your reefs stability. Done right, you cant even tell the lifts are there. The clear acrylic rods are less noticable than using pvc, restrict flow less and depending on how you do ti can prvide a much more stable platform. Regardless of how you choose to do it, lifting your rock above the sand is a very beneficial thing to do.

Sorry! I know this was a very long post. I'm a totally noobie to saltwater, but i've had freshwater for many many years. Freshwater seems like a walk in the park compared to this!

Thanks!

Welcome to TRT

hth

pinchharmonic · 04-23-2007, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekid55

first off hey welcome to TRT

no bio balls nitrate factory.
your sand will become live within a month of your tank being up dont worry about that. you dont need a live rock lift but some people dont like there rock touching the bed. you dont want dead spots in your tank thats the opposite of what you want. i had a CPR on my 120 and hated it. i would get it drilled or a overflow box. flow = good

Thanks everyone! No more forum shopping. All the expertise is here!

anyway,

You probably already figured this out, but, my tank has no built in overflow.

"i would get it drilled or a overflow box"

I'm confused, doesn't the CPR cs102 (hang on back overflow box) count as what you mention. Or does what you mention involve drilling the aquarium?

jenajet · 04-23-2007, 01:53 AM

Nope don't have to drill using the cpr. Lot's of people run tanks without problems using cpr's.

VWD · 04-23-2007, 10:24 AM

Welcome to TRT!!!!!!!!!

MIO · 04-25-2007, 01:25 PM

I have Had BIO Balls For Years with No Problems. No Nitrate Problems Nothing! Just Make sure you have a UV Sterlizer hooked up. Also make sure you have a sock catching all the debris coming into the sump which will elimanate allot of nitrate problems. I actually think my tanks have run allot healthyer with them.

Casey · 04-25-2007, 01:36 PM

Bio balls are bad news and so are socks dont use either just clean the sump out once a month and do regular wcs and you should be fine ,dont overfeed.

bosscrab · 04-25-2007, 03:00 PM

Welcome

Yeah no bio balls or dirty socks, yuk!

pinchharmonic · 04-25-2007, 03:07 PM

i'm guessing sock is literally a filter you put over the inlet into the sump?

So someone says socks are good, someone says socks are bad.

What if I got a sock and cleaned it often? would that matter?

Fly Guy · 04-25-2007, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinchharmonic

i'm guessing sock is literally a filter you put over the inlet into the sump?

So someone says socks are good, someone says socks are bad.

What if I got a sock and cleaned it often? would that matter?

Many very successful reefers use filter socks. You hit the nail on the head with the "cleaning thing". If you clean them every day or two they are not a problem.

MIO · 04-25-2007, 11:55 PM

So you are telling me its not better to change the sock every 2 weeks and rinsing them every day? Its better to let all the debris get all over the sump? And have a chance to get back into the tank via a closed loop system not to mention attaching to the bio balls??? This is why so many people have trouble with the bio balls. BIO Ball are good if you have enough flow going through them and a socks to catch all the debris. You Need some bacteria to build up on the BIO balls. My Nitrates are 0 and always have been with BIO Balls and a sock. Not to mention my water is cyrstal clear. I think the people that use the BIO balls and have proplems just dont have enough flow going through them. You just have to know what you are doing but for me this is the way to go. 1. Flow 2. Sock to catch debris from attaching to the bio balls 3. Use a UV Sterlizer.

skeety · 04-27-2007, 07:42 AM

Are you going to run a skimmer? (forgive me if I missed it).

The idea behind the sock/filter opinions is that...those things do catch crud/wastes/excess food. But they do not remove it from the water column. Instead, they just trap it. Those traped particles will STILL break down and release nitrates/phosphates/other nasties right back into the water passing over them.

This process only takes a few hours. So unless you're cleaning these filters/socks very frequently, you're not really helping. So while it "LOOKS" like the sock has caught everything, all that's really their is the left over gray matter. All the bad stuff, the reason you try to remove this stuff, is already back in your water.

A skimmer PHYSICALLY removes this crud from your water column. MUCH more effective.

The idea behind no sock is...yes...allow the detrius to stay stirred up...in the water column. This allows the skimmer a chance to remove it..from the water.

The key here is to REMOVE the detrius from the water. Not just trap it in one place.

Welcome aboard...and keep us posted.