SPS Coloration

[Hendersonracing]

ok quick question? If its hard to figure out phosphates what if there is no trace of algae in the tank can you still have phosphates???I have been back and forth people tell me high phosphates and other people tell me low nutrients????but if you try to raise the nutrients the phosphates go up???so were is the balance???

[skeety]

Originally Posted by Hendersonracing

so were is the balance???

I think with each tank, it's different.

I have two tanks in my house and they both react differently to the same changes.

Just gotta keep playing with things until you see the reaction you're looking for, then fight to keep things there.

Blue's are very hard to keep too. If you can't keep other colors too, then it's a problem I'd worry about. But if it's only the blues...well...then you're like most of us. hahaha

[drdude05]

I run 2 x 250 watt XM 20ks MHS and 4 110 watt vhos 2 whites 2 actinic.
I have tons of color just no blues they always fade to green or something else.

I am planning on changing out my bulbs for XM 250W either 10K or 20K I'm not sure which yet. I have been wondering if my lighting is weak and not providing enough PAR to support some of the blues and purples.

As for other colors I have no problem with green or yellow sps. I haven't tried red yet but I have some red zoos that are very vibrant in color, and the blues of my crocea clam seem to "pop". And of course I can keep brown pretty good

[Geoff]

i have absolutely no algae in my tank, but i still have a phosphate problem.

there is not a good way to test for phosphates. the bacteria in the tank uptake it extremely fast. by the time it reads in the water column you have a huge problem.

increasing the light intensity only reinforces the fact that there is a phosphate problem. the more PAR you add the less photosynthetic symbiots are needed in the coral. these photosynthetic symbiots need phosphates to live. if you crank up the lights these symbiots are replaced by more of the non photosynthetic symbiots, thus giving the colour back.

in a DSB tank super lights are needed in order to combat the phosphates that are in the sand bed. this is why it is not uncommon to see 400w bulbs over a DSB tank.

on a BB tank the lights are not needed as much to fight off the phosphate levels in the substrate. lower light levels are needed to feed the corals. the problem is that it is difficult to figure out when the phosphate levels go up. the normal clues just are not there in a BB tank. with all of the flow it is extremely difficult for algae and cyano to even get a foothold in the tank.

what kind of skimmer do you have? what is the flow through the sump? how diligent are you with siphoning out detritus? do you have a substrate.

take a peek in The Think Tank and do a search for symbiots. a couple monster threads should come up. you might want to read through them to get a better idea than what i explained.

G~

[Hendersonracing]

Originally Posted by Geoff

i have absolutely no algae in my tank, but i still have a phosphate problem.

there is not a good way to test for phosphates. the bacteria in the tank uptake it extremely fast. by the time it reads in the water column you have a huge problem.

increasing the light intensity only reinforces the fact that there is a phosphate problem. the more PAR you add the less photosynthetic symbiots are needed in the coral. these photosynthetic symbiots need phosphates to live. if you crank up the lights these symbiots are replaced by more of the non photosynthetic symbiots, thus giving the colour back.

in a DSB tank super lights are needed in order to combat the phosphates that are in the sand bed. this is why it is not uncommon to see 400w bulbs over a DSB tank.

on a BB tank the lights are not needed as much to fight off the phosphate levels in the substrate. lower light levels are needed to feed the corals. the problem is that it is difficult to figure out when the phosphate levels go up. the normal clues just are not there in a BB tank. with all of the flow it is extremely difficult for algae and cyano to even get a foothold in the tank.

what kind of skimmer do you have? what is the flow through the sump? how diligent are you with siphoning out detritus? do you have a substrate.

take a peek in The Think Tank and do a search for symbiots. a couple monster threads should come up. you might want to read through them to get a better idea than what i explained.

G~

sorry to take hold of the thread....Im not sure if it was directed toward me or not???

I have a mr2 skimmer w/ blueline 55 pump...does a great job...I gues Im going to cut back on my feedings again and do a pretty big wc?

I just got my 400 watt lights so hopefully that will help with the dsb....also I havent cleaned the sandbed yet..should I be doing that? its kinda hard to reach in a 30" deep tank(I know my fault)
and I have 18 mag drive for a return pump.. Im thinking its probably not enough of a return(I think 3/4 return line all the way?) but someone said slow flow through the sump for the skimmer can catch most of it?

[Geoff]

it was for either of you.

you want the flow through the sump to be the same as what the skimmer can process. does your MR-2 have 1 or two beckett towers? i am guessing that the skimmer is only processing about 400gph. you might want to add a second beckett to the skimmer. that will get the processing much closer to the return. this will grab more of the nutrients. i am sure the skimmer is doing the best it can. it is just that a lot more water is going around the skimmer than through it. this gives the nutrients more of a chance to be uptaken by the sand bed/algae.

getting the detritus piles out from under the aquascaping will help a lot also.

the lighting will help a lot. i was running 400's over my 22" deep 125g when it was a DSB. the colours were easy to keep when you overblast them with light.

G~

[drdude05]

As for me, I have an ASM G4X skimmer. It has been modded for recirc and is fed with a Rio 2500. I'd say it feeds somewhere around 700gph. The flow through the sump is between 800 - 900 gph. I have a sand substrate about 1-2" thick that gets vaccumed at the time of my biweekly water change.

[Hendersonracing]

Originally Posted by Geoff

it was for either of you.

you want the flow through the sump to be the same as what the skimmer can process. does your MR-2 have 1 or two beckett towers? i am guessing that the skimmer is only processing about 400gph. you might want to add a second beckett to the skimmer. that will get the processing much closer to the return. this will grab more of the nutrients. i am sure the skimmer is doing the best it can. it is just that a lot more water is going around the skimmer than through it. this gives the nutrients more of a chance to be uptaken by the sand bed/algae.

getting the detritus piles out from under the aquascaping will help a lot also.

the lighting will help a lot. i was running 400's over my 22" deep 125g when it was a DSB. the colours were easy to keep when you overblast them with light.

G~

If I install a second beckett do I need to buy another pump??or t it off?

[Geoff]

Joe- i would check with Andy, but i would think that the Blueline 55 would be able to push two injectors.

drdude05- i was trying to figure out the specs on your skimmer. they seem to come with a Sedra 5000 for feeding the skimmer. this pump is only rated at 500gph. if this is the pump being used to feed the skimmer i would be surprised if it actually process more than about 200gph. recircing will not help much if this is all that is going through the skimmer. even if your skimmer is fed by a Rio 2500, which is rated at about 800gph pushing water, i would think you would be lucky to get 300gph throught the skimmer. putting needle wheels on a pumps really cuts down on what a pump can push. they become terribly inefficient at pushing water.

G~

[drdude05]

The G4X I have came with a Sedra 9000. I'm using it as the recirc pump.

[drdude05]

As far as I know I don't have any needle wheels on my pumps

[drdude05]

You really think that I'm losing over 500GPH???? That seems kinda high. I mean I get your point about having to pump through the tubing into the skimmer and then face the back pressure of the water in the skimmer and then exit out the skimmer back to the tank, but 500 gph .... really ?????

[Geoff]

how is air getting into the skimmer? one of the pumps has to be a needlewheel. neither of those pumps is powerfull enough to PUSH a venturi valve. i can see them PULLING a venturi valve and then chopping the air with thier needlewheel though.

if you are feeding the skimmer with an unmodified RIO 2500 than you may be processing close to 700gph. i am sure it will not be 100% of flow because there will be some back pressure inside the skimmer, but not a huge mount. pretty much the head pressure will equal the water height in side the skimmer. so at most 2' of head pressure.

if your feed pump is modified than my guestimates for actual skimmer processing will be pretty close.

G~

[Geoff]

i lose about 800gph with my eductor driven skimmer. i get about 400gph out of my Mag 12. a Mag 12 is rated with more head pressure than the Sedra and Rio.

i have actually never seen a flow curve for a needlewheel pump. they do not publish this because the flow rates are so low. think about how little paddle area is on the impeller. there is no way it could even come close to the flow of an unmodified pump.

G~

[drdude05]

My pumps are setup where the sedra is the recirc pump and draws air into the pump to generate the bubbles. The Rio just acts as a feed pump, no mods at all, it just plugs into the skimmer and goes.