Sick Damsel???

[Jflip2002]

Ok, so I was looking at that little POS white damsel in my tank with my puffer. And he has little white bubbles on him. I took him out of the water, to see if it was just air stuck to him, and it wasnt. Im wondering if this is some disease he may spread to my tomato and my puffer? Any info is helpful

[partobe]

sounds like ick to me

[zxcv123]

yup, ich. very contagious so get him out and 2 qt immediatly

[Jflip2002]

I took him out, put him in my little 10g. I have just my puffer and my tomato in the 29g now. I put some of that stress coat in the tank, it says it helps prevent the spreading of some diseases. I also put some stress zyme in there, which is just bacteria. Should I buy a copper treatment, or I mean whats the way to treat this?

[partobe]

Ok no copper if you EVER plan on having any kind of coral or snails or starfish. I would wait and see if any of the other fish come down with it. Just because one fish has it doesn't mean they will all get it. If they do get it there are other types of med that will work that aren't copper based.

[Casey]

I would just let him ride it out I wouldnt treat.

[JennM]

If it's bubbles on the skin, it's likely Brooklynella. Brook is a protozoan infestation which typically infests clownfishes - both clownfishes and damsels are in the same family - so while the infestation is not exclusive to those fishes, they are particularly prone. I'd be watching all the fish - since the clown is prone and the puffer is scale-less and therefore more vulnerable also.

Stress-coat is an aloe-based substance, and IMO useless in saltwater, and it's way overused in freshwater It gunks up the water and can actually cause dissolved oxygen problems because all that slimy stuff impedes gas exchange at the surface. Stress zyme is equally redundant IMO. Both those products were formulated for use in freshwater.

If it is Brooklynella, treatment with Formalin in a hospital tank (NOT the main tank!) is indicated.

Copper is tricky to use with puffers.. the only one I'd suggest is Cupramine, but I don't think from the sounds of it that you are dealing with ich, so copper-based meds are not indicated.

Brooklynella *can* kill within hours - but sometimes it moves very slowly. Symptoms include blisters/bubbles on the skin, sloughing of skin or a white filmy, almost velvety looking coating on the fish. Ich presents as what looks like salt grains. Lymphocystis is also a possibility, it presents as white spots, often on the fins, almost like pimples - larger than ich. Lymphocystis is viral and usually caused by stress. It will usually go away on its own when the stressors are removed, and the cysts can be removed manually after a freshwater bath - however if this is done, one needs to be watchful for secondary bacterial infection from wound sites where the cysts were. I find the best way to deal with that is freswater bath to kill the cysts, and change the fish's environment to remove the stress, and they usually heal up on their own.

From your description, and based on the species affected though, I'd say it's likely that you are dealing with Brooklynella.

Jenn

[zxcv123]

Originally Posted by JennM

If it's bubbles on the skin, it's likely Brooklynella. Brook is a protozoan infestation which typically infests clownfishes - both clownfishes and damsels are in the same family - so while the infestation is not exclusive to those fishes, they are particularly prone. I'd be watching all the fish - since the clown is prone and the puffer is scale-less and therefore more vulnerable also.

Stress-coat is an aloe-based substance, and IMO useless in saltwater, and it's way overused in freshwater It gunks up the water and can actually cause dissolved oxygen problems because all that slimy stuff impedes gas exchange at the surface. Stress zyme is equally redundant IMO. Both those products were formulated for use in freshwater.

If it is Brooklynella, treatment with Formalin in a hospital tank (NOT the main tank!) is indicated.

Copper is tricky to use with puffers.. the only one I'd suggest is Cupramine, but I don't think from the sounds of it that you are dealing with ich, so copper-based meds are not indicated.

Brooklynella *can* kill within hours - but sometimes it moves very slowly. Symptoms include blisters/bubbles on the skin, sloughing of skin or a white filmy, almost velvety looking coating on the fish. Ich presents as what looks like salt grains. Lymphocystis is also a possibility, it presents as white spots, often on the fins, almost like pimples - larger than ich. Lymphocystis is viral and usually caused by stress. It will usually go away on its own when the stressors are removed, and the cysts can be removed manually after a freshwater bath - however if this is done, one needs to be watchful for secondary bacterial infection from wound sites where the cysts were. I find the best way to deal with that is freswater bath to kill the cysts, and change the fish's environment to remove the stress, and they usually heal up on their own.

From your description, and based on the species affected though, I'd say it's likely that you are dealing with Brooklynella.

Jenn

Are the bubbles like little salt grains, if not then its probable brook, like Jenn said.
Incase you dont no how to do a fw dip http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...waterdips.html
You should do it asap because it will remove cysts in the gills which are not good

[JennM]

I read that link on freshwater dips. I disagree with a couple of points in that article. Please also note that I am speaking from exprerience - I've done literally hundreds of freshwater baths on fishes in the trade over the last 6 years or so.

I wouldn't worry about the pH - in fact, it's *better* if there is a difference in pH, as it will kill the parasites faster. For the short duration of the bath, it won't hurt the fish any more than its pre-existing condition is.

I'd also make the dip last longer than 3 minutes. I usually do 5 minutes, and up to 10 minutes. I've read in Wilkerson's clownfishes book she suggests 30 minutes (!!!)... I wouldn't advise that but I've had fish go longer than 10 an be OK (got called away etc and lost track of time).

In my experience, stuff like gill or eye flukes, needs at *least* 4 minutes to start to kill the parasite - so dipping for too short a duration does nothing.

5-10 minutes is usually effective, IMO. Keep an eye on how the fish tolerates it - some never seem to be bothered, some lie down or breathe hard. If they lie down, I usually prod them gently to get them back up, but I don't shorten the dip time because of this. Best to let them deal with it this once, than have to repeat it any more than necessary.

Also, no more than one dip per 24 hours. Make each one count - but don't do it more than once a day.

I do use FW dip as one line of defence in treating Brook but I don't depend on that alone to treat it.

Jenn

[zxcv123]

Originally Posted by JennM

I read that link on freshwater dips. I disagree with a couple of points in that article. Please also note that I am speaking from exprerience - I've done literally hundreds of freshwater baths on fishes in the trade over the last 6 years or so.

I wouldn't worry about the pH - in fact, it's *better* if there is a difference in pH, as it will kill the parasites faster. For the short duration of the bath, it won't hurt the fish any more than its pre-existing condition is.

I'd also make the dip last longer than 3 minutes. I usually do 5 minutes, and up to 10 minutes. I've read in Wilkerson's clownfishes book she suggests 30 minutes (!!!)... I wouldn't advise that but I've had fish go longer than 10 an be OK (got called away etc and lost track of time).

In my experience, stuff like gill or eye flukes, needs at *least* 4 minutes to start to kill the parasite - so dipping for too short a duration does nothing.

5-10 minutes is usually effective, IMO. Keep an eye on how the fish tolerates it - some never seem to be bothered, some lie down or breathe hard. If they lie down, I usually prod them gently to get them back up, but I don't shorten the dip time because of this. Best to let them deal with it this once, than have to repeat it any more than necessary.

Also, no more than one dip per 24 hours. Make each one count - but don't do it more than once a day.

I do use FW dip as one line of defence in treating Brook but I don't depend on that alone to treat it.

Jenn

I am am also speaking from experience as well, I would match the ph exactly, I have lost a few yellow tangs because I didnt match the Ph exactly. She was in for about 30 Seconds when the gills stopped moving, and put her in to the refugium and she did not make it, becuase of the PH shock.
Nothing was wrong with her either, she was a new arrival that was getting a percautionary dip.

[JennM]

Originally Posted by zxcv123

I am am also speaking from experience as well, I would match the ph exactly, I have lost a few yellow tangs because I didnt match the Ph exactly. She was in for about 30 Seconds when the gills stopped moving, and put her in to the refugium and she did not make it, becuase of the PH shock.
Nothing was wrong with her either, she was a new arrival that was getting a percautionary dip.

I don't mean to sound argumentative - at least not in a bad way... just exploring your experience.

How can you be sure that it was pH shock? I'm not saying for sure it wasn't - but just wondering how you can be sure that it was. Honestly neither of us can say either way, however I'll offer the following for your consideration:

Yellow tangs can freak out and die just from being moved. One of my workers was bagging one up to take to a client's one day and it just up and died in the specimen container before it was even bagged. It doesn't happen often but it does happen.

I had a fat, healthy, long-term captivity Naso die in transit from a client's home to my store when we took their tank down. I concluded the stress of it all was just too much and it just died from the stress.

If yours was/were a new arrival(s), it was already stressed from being caught and bagged, and transported to your location. That's quite different than moving it from a tank it was comfortable in, and dipping it.

I use RO/DI which has a neutral pH. Been doing it the same way since the first one I did, 6 years ago, when I worked for somebody else at another LFS. I have not lost a fish in a dip, except one I forgot about that was in the fresh water way too long That was MY error and my fault. I have lost fish after the fact, but IMO (and again - my opinion, not hard scientific data), the fish that died after the fact would have died anyway - they didn't die immediately after the fact, but within a day or so after the dip. Usually in those cases, the fish appeared too far gone for the dip to have helped or caused their deaths - meaning that if I hadn't dipped, they would have died anyway.

There's no harm in matching the pH for a dip, so I'm not suggesting it's the wrong way to do it - just that in my experience and per information I've received from those more learned than myself over the years, it seems to be more effective to have a change in pH - as I said it's more effective in ridding the parasites. The osmotic shock is what primarily kills the parasites.

Jenn

[VWD]

I don't worry about PH when doing a fresh water dip, never had a problem, May not be a bad thing ,

[Jflip2002]

Well, I took the sickly ugly little fish out within a day after he broke out Id imagine. Hes now in his own little tank. My Clown and my puffer both look fine and not harmed. I didnt a quick 20% water change after it happened, so we'll see. They both look fine and healthy though.

[jenajet]

I used formalin to treat brook and it worked like a charm! I say just treat in a med tank if dipping concerns you. It works! And jenn is right brook is fast. I noticed a bruise first, couple hours later blister(yuk), rushed off to walmart in the middle of the night and got the only med with formalin I could find, by the time I got back the gramma was on it's side looking very bad. He looked better and was eating within 48 hours.

[Loverotties]

It would help if you you can take a picture then once we see it and can tell you what it is then you can argue on how to heal it.