questions from a newbie

[ReefNewbie54321]

what is the recomended amount of live sand for a 200 gal. tank

what is the recomended amount of live rock for a 200 gal. tank

what is the recomended amount of live sand for a 125 gal. tank

what is the recomended amount of live rock for a 125 gal. tank

what is the recomended amount of live sand for a 75 gal. tank

what is the recomended amount of live rock for a 75 gal. tank

is there any corals that just shouldnt be put in the same tank together?

any fish that just shouldnt be put in the same tank together

sorry for so many questions and being such a newb but u havta start somewhere

[rachyl756]

The problem with answering some of this, is that is REALLY depeds on what you want to keep. If your wanted primarily SPS corals the answers would be alot differant than if you wanted to keep somesoft corals.

Generally I hear a pound of rock per gallon of water, but depending on some things, that varies. I think it's a good guideline though.

The best place to start, is to start thinking about what you want to keep in your tank. Like I am setting up a new tank and everything is dependent on it needs to support some hippo tangs and some green star polyps, MUCH differant set up than if we were going for SPS corals.

Is there any thing you really like about reefs? Anything specific you were wanting to do with it?

[drsyme]

Yes I agree with Rachel

You should look into the idea of biotopes before you start your tank. The idea is that your tank should represent an area of the ocean, and you would try to keep the same types of fish, and corals that exist in that area in the wild. These types of biotopes can be general or specific. There are a few types, reef top biotopes, that consist of high water flow, intense lighting, and SPS corals; there are shallow inshore habitats with less flow, but still bright lights; lagoon biotopes with little to no flow; and forereef biotopes with less lighting and moderate flow. The fishes and corals of each type are different.

And there are other biotopes, and subdivisions of the above biotopes.

Basically read a lot and decide what you want to keep before you start.

And of course there are fish only tanks with live rock (FOWLR).

If you are going for an SPS tank you might not want sand at all.

Otherwise 3 to 4 inches deep should be a general rule of thumb, as is the 1 to 1.75 lbs of LR per gallon of water.

Also keep in mind with LR at that rate, you dont need any other biologic filtration. You need LR and a good skimmer. The rest depends on the type of tank, how much light, what type and how much flow, sump, refugium, etc.

[Cosine]

HI welcome to TRT
I suggest reading a lot on this site. There's lots of good info out there. Maybe pick up a few books as well there is a section on this site with some suggestions

otherwise. You have good advice up there.
Read a lot... figure out what you want to keep and go from there.

good luck
and ask lots of questions you wanna get as much right from first time around!

[wolfie]

Originally Posted by drsyme

Yes I agree with Rachel


Otherwise 3 to 4 inches deep should be a general rule of thumb, as is the 1 to 1.75 lbs of LR per gallon of water.

Also keep in mind with LR at that rate, you dont need any other biologic filtration. You need LR and a good skimmer. The rest depends on the type of tank, how much light, what type and how much flow, sump, refugium, etc.

Is this true? so if we have 3-4 In. of sand and 1.75 LR for each G of watter one does not need a filter?

Well my sand bed are 4.5' and I have a littler over 1.75 bl of LR per GL of watter. THis mean I do not need a filter?
Also I am thnking of getting a wet/dry fillter, but thinking of turning it into a sump rater then a wet/dry filter.

[Cosine]

yup in a reef tank you want to keep nitrates low and LR is the best way of doing this.
typical mechanical filters break down ammonia to nitrate and nitrate to nitrite and leave it there
the rock will break down the ammonia trite and trates

not the best explanation but i think it made sense

[drsyme]

Originally Posted by wolfie

Is this true? so if we have 3-4 In. of sand and 1.75 LR for each G of watter one does not need a filter?

Well my sand bed are 4.5' and I have a littler over 1.75 bl of LR per GL of watter. THis mean I do not need a filter?
Also I am thnking of getting a wet/dry fillter, but thinking of turning it into a sump rater then a wet/dry filter.

With that much LR make sure you have plenty of flow. Is it porous LR or dense? The more porous it is the better. When you get over 1.75 lbs of LR per gallon, you begin to get too many dead spaces. But as long as you have high flow, you have enough area for nitrifying bacteria to colonize, and that will do your biologic filtration. A good skimmer will remove DOC and essentially perform mechanical filtration. A lot of people also run carbon either in the sump in a sack, or somewhere in line.

So good bye mechanical filter pads, and good bye wet/dry media. They are fine for fish only tanks. But for reef tanks where you want all of the nutrients low, including nitrates, you dont want those in your system. The mechanical filters and wet/dry media just become nutrient sinks, and eventually continuously put nitrates into the water.

Wet/dry filters work fine as sumps, just no bioballs.

[tdwyatt]

Originally Posted by Cosine

yup in a reef tank you want to keep nitrates low and LR is the best way of doing this.

Most folks with reef systems don't use anything but biological filters, that is, they use the biological activity of bacteria to change the fish and misc other animal wastes (deammonification) into less toxic substances (nitrATES, NO3-) that may be part of a second cycle (denitrification) that removes them from the aquarium altogether (as nitrogen gas bubbles).

Originally Posted by Cosine

typical mechanical filters break down ammonia to nitrate and nitrate to nitrite and leave it there... ...the rock will break down the ammonia trite and trates

I think he ment biofiltration takes ammonia to nitrITES then to nitrATES, then in the deep part of the rocks where oxygen concentrations are very low (or in the depths of the sand beds where the same anaerobic conditions exist) convert the nitrATES through some intermediate steps into nitrogen gas...


which is self exporting from either sandbeds or rock submerged in SW.


Physical/mechanical filtration is the use of some fixed media or a physical process to remove substances/particulates from the water column. Removal of most particulates is unnecessary in most natural reef systems, as this will be eventully a function of filterfeeders like fanworms, sponges, etc. in a mature system. Skimming is a mechanical filtration method also, it utilizes the surface tension of seawater and the physics of long-chain molecules to separate these molecules and some particulates suspended in the water column from the seawater. Most successful reef systems use a combination of these filtration methods (including chemical filtration via carbon, purigen, etc.) that fit well together and have the least adverse impacts on overall water quality in terms of the intended biotypic emulation. The current trend is to move away from the use of bioballs and miscellaneous physical substrates for biofiltration in favor of more natural biofiltration media (live rock and live sand) based on the imiproved exportability of nitrogen cycle byproducts through the application of these biological filtration methodologies. The best you can get from a wet/dry system is a boost in system nitrate levels, where the availability of dissolved nitrates and sources of both organic and inorganic carbon now in the water column are competed for by benthic and epibenthic algae, microalgae, bacteria, cyanobacteria, and photoautrophic protists, as well as the denitrifying bacteria inside the depths of the rock and sand, which are placed at a competative disadvantage due to the need for perfusion of these waterborne nutrients to the sites where denitrification may occur (and past all the aerobic competition prior to anaerobic availability). The use of wet/dry biofiltration shifts a portion of the availability of these substances away from their potential denitrification pathways and into the food chains of the aerobic biomechanisms, reducing the rate of export of the nitrogen products and increasing biological sequestering within the aquarium. In reef-based systems, this is counterproductive. In systems employing DSB and LR technology, the nitrates awre produced in close proximity to the denitrification sites in these same substrates, allowing for a higher persentage of denitrification export of the nitrates produced by aerobic processes in the marine aquaria, there is a much smaller escape of the nitrates formed for general water column competition.

There are many thoughts on this process in the think tank portion of TRT, spend a little time looking through some of the threads on the topix there.


HTH, there is a LOT to read!

[Cosine]

Originally Posted by tdwyatt

I think he ment biofiltration takes ammonia to nitrITES then to nitrATES, then in the deep part of the rocks where oxygen concentrations are very low (or in the depths of the sand beds where the same anaerobic conditions exist) convert the nitrATES through some intermediate steps into nitrogen gas...

Yeah I meant that
I shoulda read it over before I posted. left out a few words I think
sorry about that.
now back to reading Tom's post