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Old 01-14-2004, 05:56 PM   #1
mabblizzard
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plumbing help


Hi everyone , I'm getting my new mag 9.5 pump tomorrow and i need some help as to how to run the pvc. i have never had a sump before so i have no idea as of what to get. what type of pvc do i need to ask for? and what size? i was thinking of comming off the pump and going back towards the back of the tank then having a 90 to go up and then have a "T" and have it go into the tank from both sides of the top of the tank. somewhere in there i as thinking of putting a ball valve and a one way flo thing so the water can only go one way. if i decide to go with a spray bar how big do i need to go with the wholes and how far down should i go from the top of the tank?
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Old 01-14-2004, 06:29 PM   #2
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I used white PVC from Home Depot; same kind of PVC used for drains in home. It really is pretty easy, just put all piping together & make sure you have a good fit before actually cementing the piping.

As for the size, you want to match the size off the pump & use a ball or gate valve off the pump before your 'T', you will need to control the output with ball or gate value so you do not overflow your tank. Yes, a "one way flow value" is a good idea.

You don't mention how water is returning to the sump, are you using a skimmer box or is your tank drilled? Noise is an issue, have you researched durso & stockman pipes?

Finally, make sure the head (distance from pump to tank surface) can be handled properly by the pump; I have read that you need to add I think 5 feet to your head measurements for each 90 degree elbow.

Good luck.
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Old 01-14-2004, 07:23 PM   #3
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I plan on visiting Home Depot with the mag9.5 in hand.
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Old 01-14-2004, 07:45 PM   #4
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Installing PVC pipe is pretty easy. The most common used is PVC pipe Sch 20. To start, draw a plan and specify measures before you cut the pipe (if you will, post your plans here at TRT....youīll get a lot of feedback....quality feedback !!). Count the amount of elbows, Tīs etc. and then go around it to try and minimize those turns (they decrease the actual flow rate your pump is capable of delivering). Check your pump for head loses and get a rough estimate of your actual vs desired flow rate. If you decided howīs your final plumbing arrangement, proceed to cut pipe. Practice the assembly by dry fitting all the joints (PVC glue is not very forgiving....not much room for error). Get some sand paper and sand the gluing surfaces. Clean the residues from the sanding operation. Glue the pieces starting with those that are not specificly oriented. When you do the work, make sure not to twist the glueing surfaces. Just push as far as they can go. Clean if there is much excess coming out of the joint. If itīs not dripping, donīt clean it (the excess helps to seal). PVC glue is sort of a welding material. I donīt know the chemistry involved, but it will melt the material to make a perfect bond. This is prolly why many prefer glued joints than threaded PVC (done right, no risks of leakage). And donīt be scared, itīs not so difficult as it may sound. You just need to be careful. Donīt rush !!!

On the other hand. I would put a ball valve on each side of the tee. This way you can tweak the flow if you want at each side of the tank.
If you have overflow box or boxes you can install the return lines within the top 2" (from water surface) so if your return pump shuts off for any random reason, the backflow isnīt much. You should size the sump to take the additional volume from a potential back flow and avoid possible carpet/floor flooding.
Also, youīll need a ball valve at the pump discharge, so that you can can close it, and disconnect the pump in case you need (for service, maintenance, etc). In this circumstance you shouldnīt have backflow.

As far as pipe size, Iīm a little rusty on that subject, so I donīt think I can be of much help here. My return pump is a Mag 12, so my needs are different than yours. If I had to guess, you may need 3/4"-1" pipe for the return, but Iīm sure someone will chime in with a better answer.

To be honest! youīre right on track.

For the spray bar, there are different options. One is to place it as deep as you consider will suit your purposes. For example, if you want, you can run it to just about the top of your sand bed, to help move detritus to the front of the tank. You can have a spray bar to provide some corals with a gentle, laminar flow at a mid level, for instance.
The spray bar can come from your return line (the same one that comes from your sump). In this case, youīll need to drilla small hole just below the water surface for syphon brake (in case your pump shuts off).
You can have a dedicated spray bar on a separate powerhead for example (you donīt have to worry about the syphoning issue, provided you took care of other details in your return line).

This maybe enough for now. Maybe too much writing in a single reply, sorry !!!.
If you have many doubts, stick to this thread and ask lots of questions. Youīll come along nicely if you take it easy.

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Last edited by grazhopr; 01-14-2004 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 01-14-2004, 08:40 PM   #5
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thank you everyone for all your help!! i have an overflow box to get from the tank to the sump with a flex hose that it came with.
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Old 01-15-2004, 05:49 PM   #6
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i have a mag 9.5 and it is very strong. i just finished my sump and was trying to balance it out last night. the 9.5 pumps back faster then i can feed it. so i have to do some more work.

i use 1"PVC pipe all the way around. i used 45 degree bends to lessen the flow rate loss. on the return end i have it "T'ed" off. one goes to my built in wet/dry the other goes to ball flex tubing that is also "T'ed" off.

Take your Mag 9.5 with you. Home Depot has fitting that can adapt most of what you may need to go from you mag 9.5 to the tank.

Good luck,
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Old 01-15-2004, 09:13 PM   #7
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well i got the pump today and wow this thing is alot stronger than i thought. i went from the rio 2100 to the mag 9.5 lol what a dif. i started from the pump straight to the back of the tank then i went up to where the bottom of the tank starts and t'd off from there and went up the 2 sides of the tank and went into the tank about 3 inches below the surface. luckily for me i put two ball valves on each of the uprights and can control the water flow. i don't even have them close to being half open and the overflow box cant handle it so I'm looking for and overflow box that can handle about 800 to 900 gph any suggestions? what happend was that it's pumping faster than the water going back is so i can't use the pump full power, well never mind that i can't even put it to half power
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Old 01-16-2004, 01:30 AM   #8
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yes, you are on the right track . you will become a flow junkie... it is inevitable
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Old 01-16-2004, 11:33 AM   #9
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mabblizzard... i am in the same spot as you. i have a built in overflow. i made an outbox. However the two, 3/4" U-tubes i made can not feed the outbiox and the in line fast enough to keep up with the Mag 9.5. i have 3 different ball valves on the return line and they are almost closed shut. i just bought 1.5" PVC and elbows and made a U-tube. i will try tonight to get it to feed the outbox fast enough to keep up with the 9.5....... i will let you know if it works...... dam Mag 9.5 i love it but it SO strong
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Old 01-16-2004, 12:12 PM   #10
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lol yeah very strong I was looking at the cpr overflowblox that can handle 1200 gph i might just go with that, but i heard that it has a problem with keeping the syphon
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Old 01-16-2004, 12:31 PM   #11
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i wonder if you could fix that problem yourself by gluing in some acrylic pieces to act as baffles, its been a while since i've looked at one of those and at that time i'm not sure that i understood what i was seeing, so i'm not shure how you'd go about it. there's gotta be some modification that can be done to fix that one problem....
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Old 01-16-2004, 12:40 PM   #12
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...or are they the ones that run more like a weir?

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Old 01-16-2004, 01:52 PM   #13
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2 points:

1) not sure if you already know this, but you should drill two small holes in each PVC pipe (going from the pump back up to the tank) just under the waterline; this will prevent water from siphoning back thru the pump and overflowing the tank. This is an extra saftey thing, even if you have a one-way check valve upstream from the pump. This might be unnecessary if your returns are only three inches beneath the surface and if your sump can handle the whole three inches of tank water.

2) you can increase the rate of flow thru the U tubes on the overflow box by lowering the water level in the outside box, so that it's consistently lower than the level in the inside box. (Probably not possible with the store-bought overflow boxes, but easy to do with a DIY one) Basically, if you have a durso or stockman standpipe in the outside overflow box, just shorten it a bit so the water level is lower. This will pull more water thru the U-tubes at a faster rate.
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Old 01-16-2004, 02:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by snazlord

1) not sure if you already know this, but you should drill two small holes in each PVC pipe (going from the pump back up to the tank) just under the waterline; this will prevent water from siphoning back thru the pump and overflowing the tank.
yes, don't forget this.... i almost forgot that one thing, and man if the power goes out the return line can drain your tank awful fast, and if you have it really deep in your tank it will drain it to the depth that it can still suck water.... i have mine drilled pretty close to the surface, i don't have a whole lot of leeway but it keeps my return from overflowing my sump as well before it shuts itself off.
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