phosphates...

[nisom88]

hey all...
just had a question concerning phosphates. I just recently bought a phosphate test kit and found that my phosphates were at around 2.5 ppm...pretty high I guess....any thoughts as far as what could be causing this and how to deal with it? I buy seawater from the lfs and use bottled water for topoffs...both test neg for phosphates. can food be a source? I usually feed fronzen mysis shrimp and nori.......could the mysis be the culprit? Besides water changes, how can I lower this...does that phosphate absorbing filter material work at all?

Thanks...

[rayjay]

Any food I've ever fed to my tanks contains phosphates. I've also never used any phosphate remover as I find the tank matures and takes care of the problem by itself. I don't know if this is just luck or what, because I'm always seeing postings about removing it. I don't even test for it any more in any of the 7 main tanks I have set up.

[Crab]

Here's a tip I got from a friend:

Always wash your frozen brineshrimp cubes or other frozen seafood pre-packed in cubes... they are frozen in salt which may contain phosphates... so just take the time to rinse them in fresh water or seawater before putting them in a little container. Adding selco, garlic extract, vitamins etc will add high nutritional value to them.

Cheers!

[nisom88]

Thanks for the tip crab! When you guys feed frozen foods, do you thaw the cubes out first or just drop them into the tank? Also, I've heard of people thawing and draining the water...does this help?

[nickg]

I feed frozen cubes daily, with a mix of Omega 1 marine flake. I mush it all in a shot glass with a bit of seawater and selcon. Omega 1 claims to be very low in phosphate.

[tdwyatt]

All proteinaceous foodstuffs will contain phosphate. Period. Phosphates will accumulate in your water column unless you have creatures that use these proteins to increase their biomass. Phosphate is a necessary nutrient to most higher life forms. It is the energy storage form for immediate-release use in almost all higher organisms (above blue green algae, and they need it to make cellular proteins as well). The "P" in ATP is phosphate, and the storage of energy is in the chemical bond between ADP and the added phosphate molecule to form ATP (Adenosine DiPhosphate and Adenosine TriPhosphate respectively) The trick is to have most of the phosphate tied up in the bodies of our fishes, inverts, etc., rather than in the water column where it is available to nuisance algae for their growth.

As far as the phosphate pads go (if you must), use them for about a week, then either renew them or recharge them (might be a bit more than most home folks want to do, easier to buy new ones). Keep in mind that if you have Sarcophyton spp. of octocorals, they will suffer greatly from the use of phosphate pads, not due to the removal of phosphate, but from the use of Aluminum compounds (which is how the phosphate sponges work).

My personal opinion is to keep up with your water changes. This will keep your water column levels of phosphate down when used in conjunction with good reef husbandry practices. Heavy skimming will reduce your phosphate load as well, because it will remove the DOC's before they begin to decompose to their constituents (of which phosphate is a part). The use of Kalk top off will reduce phosphate levels in the water column as well, but just moves the phosphate to the sand bed, where it may remain in an insoluble form, but can be utilized by some spp. of microfauna for its phosphate content (Possible time bomb if you have an immature sand bed)

Personally, I don't test for phosphate anymore, but I do while a tank is young. Best thing to do is avoid the problems with preventative measures--good skimming (although I don't do this either) appropriate levels of feeding, mature deep sand beds, export of excess phosphate with macroalgal growth and harvesting.

Hope this helps!

[cyberchef]

Kent Marine claims that their phosphate "sponge" media will not leach aluminum into the water, is this possible or is it a smoke screen? As in "under These (add your own conjectures) conditions it will not leach aluminum out but if you don't follow this exactly then..."

[Buster]

Originally posted by rayjay
Any food I've ever fed to my tanks contains phosphates. I've also never used any phosphate remover as I find the tank matures and takes care of the problem by itself. I don't know if this is just luck or what, because I'm always seeing postings about removing it. I don't even test for it any more in any of the 7 main tanks I have set up.

How's it going? I just wanted to let you know I checked out your web site and it's really cool. I plan on reading the whole thing later tonight when I get more time. Seems to me you know what you are doing. I'm pretty new to this reef stuff and I really enjoy it. If I have any questions I'll get in touch with you.

Thanks
Buster

[FishDaddy]

Early on in the 55's life, I tried a Kent Phosphate sponge.....within minutes, my Sarcophyton went into major withdrawal. I pulled the sponge and it took the Toadstool many days to get over it.
I've read of many folks using these and other brands with no problems but all I can say is "Use at your own risk".
Dick

[tdwyatt]

Originally posted by cyberchef
Kent Marine claims that their phosphate "sponge" media will not leach aluminum into the water, is this possible or is it a smoke screen? As in "under These (add your own conjectures) conditions it will not leach aluminum out but if you don't follow this exactly then..."

Actually, I do not have any hard data to support the fact that it is the aluminum that is the problem. I can tell you that there is a definite problem with using the sponges with Sarcophyton spp. There have been many reports from aquarists, some in print, but mostly in personal communications that indicate that there is some type of problem with the combination of the two. I do not know whether it is specifically Aluminum, or whether it is some other change in water chemistry associated with the exchange of whatever anion is exchanged for phosphate anion by the Aluminum. It would be nice to have one of the folks from Kent explain exactly how their product affects the water column, but I don't expect there to be any comment from them. As particular as Sarcophyton can be at times, it may just be the change in water params itself that precipitates this response, but once again, I have no hard data to back this up.

Any comments from folks that DO have some hard data to share??? Even an article reference would help at this point...