pH low during liverock cycle...newbie help!

Catfish · 02-04-2005, 08:49 PM

I started cycling my liverock about 3 days ago, and noticed today that my pH is measuring around 7.4. I have read that the pH will drop some during the cycling, but 7.4 seems to be even below the low range. I'm not sure what to do now. Should I just let it go and keep monitoring for a few more weeks, or should I adjust the pH back to higher levels with buffer? Also, will this low pH be harmful or counter productive in my cycling process. I hope some more experienced reefers can help me out!

yardboy · 02-04-2005, 08:58 PM

You've only got live rock and salt water in your tank, right? What alt did you use and what specific gravity did you mix it to? Was the pH when you began the cycle higher than it is now? Have you checked the ammonia level? What method are you using to measure the pH? Sorry for all te questions but the answers will help point to the reaons for the low pH and what to do about it.

Catfish · 02-04-2005, 09:24 PM

Here is some more info that might help out. The salinity was right in the correct range before adding live rock and live sand. My pH was initially at around 8.3 with just water after 24 hours of making sure all the salt was fully disolved and circulated. (I used Instant Ocean salt) I just retested my pH and i would say based on the color chart that it is in the 7.5 - 7.7 range. I am using the Tetra marine testing kit which uses water samples and testing chemicals, then different color charts in different increments, jumping 0.3 each time. My ammonia test just came out around 3.0 mg/l, which is supposed to happen before the bacteria colony gets large enough to break it down...at least thats what I've read. I hope this is more helpful, and I hope I'm not just worrying too much since its only been 3 days with live rock. Thanks

yardboy · 02-04-2005, 09:49 PM

You might want to consider some Amquel or similar product to tie up the ammonia in your tank, assuming you have anything alive on the rock. If it's just rock and water, just sit it out and wait. Do you have water movement and a skimmer going in there? Minimal light at this point.

Catfish · 02-04-2005, 09:54 PM

I have both a small HOB that I'm using specifically for water movement, and also a powerhead. What did you mean by "assuming you have anything alive on the rock"? You mean my ammonia levels could have killed everything on the rock, or do you mean no corals, mushrooms or other big things, etc? Currently I only have water, live rock, live sand, and some water movement. I thought it was normal for the ammonia to spike early in the cycling period?

yardboy · 02-04-2005, 10:06 PM

It is normal, but if you happened to have anything like mushrooms, zoanthids, etc. hitchhiking on the rock, if you can keep the ammonia level down below 1.0ppm or so, they stand a chance of surviving. Too high and they'll die. But if you don't see anything other than say, corraline algae, then don't worry about it.

I once had some rock that the ammonia got over 6.oppm and the corraline bleached. Another time, I had a star coral hitchhiker that I wanted to save, so when the ammonia got to 1.5, I added an ammonia binder (Amquel in my case) and did a water change to reduce the ammonia level and the star coral is happily growing in my tank now. Maybe it wasn't necessary to do that, but ammonia is certainly toxic to corals and other inverts, so I thought it was necessary.

Catfish · 02-04-2005, 10:17 PM

Hey thanks for all your help. Currently all I see is algae unless there are other things hidden in the holes, so I think I will just be patient and let it go through its cycle. I have one more question you may be able to help me with. After talking with some people at the LFS, they were pointing out the dead matter on the live rock for sale. They told me if possible it could be beneficial to suction some off my current live rock with a turkey baster. So I went in and was sucking off the white cobb web looking stuff, and I notice there is all this plant/rock material also blowing off. Should I be going through my rock and trying to blow off all this matter or is it natural for it to be there, and I should just leave it?

tdwyatt · 02-05-2005, 02:19 AM

not to worry, better to do water changes than use amquel in the system.

Skim heavily and get better circulation, especially near the top so that water will exchange CO2 more effectively. A more acidic pH, the ammonia is less toxic, and is one of the mechanisms that allow for survival of the hitchhikers on live rock, although much below 7.0 would start to be disasterous. Just do a water change every 2 or 3 days to correct this situation.

No need to use buffers or bicarb, etc, as this scenario is not out of the norm for cycling rock. The ammonia levels can get a little high, but water changes are enough with good skimming to handle issues with this. It would be quite damaging to the gills of fishes, but the inverts, etc will be able to withstand the short timeperiod invoved with the ammonia of cycling so long as you DO THE WATER CHANGES.

One more thing before I forget, make sure that you do WATER CHANGES while cycling new rock and establishing a new tank, as this not only removes much of the waste being produced and some of the detritus being shed, but it will also lower ammonia levels in order that the things we want on good live rock will survive while still stimulating mineralizing bacteria.

Did I mention what a positive impact doing the WATER CHANGES would have?

yardboy · 02-05-2005, 06:20 AM

td,

I've had a tank set up for 20 years with no water changes and have had no problems at all with the tank except for a little hair algae here and there and there and here, and while i've lost most of my muishrooms over the years, the xenia still seems to be doing fine. Last week I put another wild collected Catalaphyllia (I've tried these over the years with little success) and it seems to be receding away from the skeleton.
Do you think WATER CHANGES would help in this situation?

You are right about the amquel.

VWD · 02-05-2005, 07:24 AM

Well , Someone else out here that don't water changes , I have gone for years without changing water on my tanks , Good results , just add top off water and keep the fish livestock down , ECO system

Catfish · 02-05-2005, 09:17 AM

I really appreciate everyones help, and thanks for all the valuable info.

SPC · 02-05-2005, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yardboy

td,

I've had a tank set up for 20 years with no water changes and have had no problems at all with the tank except for a little hair algae here and there and there and here, and while i've lost most of my muishrooms over the years, the xenia still seems to be doing fine. Last week I put another wild collected Catalaphyllia (I've tried these over the years with little success) and it seems to be receding away from the skeleton.
Do you think WATER CHANGES would help in this situation?

You are right about the amquel.

Sorry to hear about your mushrooms, Roger.

Just about to get up and do a 50 gallon water change on my 180.

Steve

yardboy · 02-06-2005, 12:50 PM

I once caught a catfish without any bait on the hook, he musta been hungry.