pH in a FOWLR question

skeety · 02-23-2005, 08:27 AM

My pH is at about 8.0 and has been there since I set up my tank 3 weeks ago.

I know it's ideal to have it at about 8.2 for a FOWLR.

the Salt mix I used has a buffering agent in it, and since it's a new tank I'm guessing that it's gonna be pretty hard to raise the pH.

Question is....does "ideal" mean "would be nice...but it's okay if you're close", or should I worry about this? Fish look fine..just trying to be proactive.

info on my setup is here:

http://mysite.verizon.net/s0da/aquarium.html

atzak · 02-23-2005, 08:33 AM

I would raise it, it's easy enough enough to add a little buffer.

skeety · 02-23-2005, 08:53 AM

What I'm saying is...if I try to raise it, the buffering agent in my salt mix will try to cancel that out, right?

Do I just buy some pH up? or how do I raise it?

atzak · 02-23-2005, 09:09 AM

Since it's a fowler, you could just use some baking soda, dissolve a tablespoon of baking soda in some water add it, wait a few minutes, test the water. It will most likely take a few tablespoons to bring it up. The easiest thing for you to do is get a 2 part solution. You don't really need to worry about calcium and alk. in a fowler but they are all related to the ph. the 2 part additives will take care of everything

skeety · 02-23-2005, 09:16 AM

Baking soda? REALLY?

man...learning something new every day.

So just take a tablespoon in a glass of water? (dechlorinated, I assume).

add it to the tank.

Test.

repeat until desired pH is achieved?

okay...I'll give it a try.

Baking soda...man...never would have guessed it.

atzak · 02-23-2005, 09:43 AM

baking soda is like duct tape

skeety · 02-23-2005, 10:11 AM

hahaha

my dad always told me:

"Son, all you need in life is 2 things. Duct Tape, and WD-40.

If its sticks, and it shouldn't...use the WD-40.

If it doesn't stick, and it should. Use the duct tape."

I'll have to tell him about Baking Soda too!

thanks again!

Doug1 · 02-23-2005, 10:15 AM

How are you measuring pH? 8.0 is close enuff for a FOWLR but you should see some fluctuation between night, morning midday and evening readings

tdwyatt · 02-23-2005, 12:13 PM

Ditto Dougs comment.

Before making any big changes, I'd be checking both the time of day when you're testing and your method of testing the pH. 8.0 is not that bad, and will be seen in systems with good established coralline and macroalgae as a part of a daily swing in pH values. Without knowing more about your system (set up, method of Ca and alk supplementation, circulation, lids on tank, hoods, etc.), it would be difficult to say whether the 8.0 is appropriate or not.

Most closed established systems see a pH of 8.0 or so almost every morning. Systems that have stable properly adjusted CO2 reactors may not see the pH go much above the 8.1 mark, but this is compensated for in many ways (high calcium and alk for example), and depending on method of measuring pH, time of year, even time of day; you may have a pH artifact due to measuring errors. Induced error may be all you're seeing, so don't make any drastic changes until you delve further into what the cause of these readings might be.

Tell us more about the system and your testing methodology before you go wild with the bicarb...

BTW, if you have a FO system, you may want to consider changing over to Seachem ASW mix for your seawater, as it is heavily buffered with borate to prevent changes in pH due to accumulations of organic acids found in FO or FOWLR systems that do not have the need for or consumption factor of the carbonate/bicarbonate buffer system for corals and related heavy calcification organisms.

Looking forward to seeing your system's specs.

skeety · 02-23-2005, 01:57 PM

I have an Oceanic Reef Ready 72g Bowfront (built in overflow). With a 29g sump. I have 1 box (gallon) of bio-balls in the sump. And a Pond-master 500 to pump the water back up to the tank. I have a Redsea Prism skimmer (I know...I know). Regular Florescent light.

20# of LR with some good coraline growth on it now. Not covered...but about 30% puple 30% green, the rest is just gray/brown rock.

as for fish, I have:

1 Coral Beauty
2 Percula clowns
2 Bangai Cardinals
1 Fire Goby
1 Beau Gregory Damsel
1 really tiny Green Clown Goby

about 20 small Hermit Crabs
3 turbo snails
and 1 cleaner shrimp.

I usually test around dinner time (for me, not them) so say...5-6'ish?

it's almost ALWAYS 8.0 (once it was 7.8).

I test with a normal test kit. Fill the test tube up to the line. Add 5 drops. shake, and compare to the color chart.

I have no tests for Alk or Calcium

what else do ya' need to know?

(I'm FOWLR now...but in about 6 months, I'm gonna start gettin' some inverts)

VWD · 02-23-2005, 10:03 PM

How is everything else in the tank doing , It is a pretty new set up , , and a good fish load for being only three weeks old , Vince

skeety · 02-24-2005, 09:59 AM

Other than loosing a Bangaii Cardinal last night (due to the fact that he wouldn't eat), everything else is just fine.

Got green algae, starting to get blue algae. Coraline is growing. All the fish are bright, beautiful, active, eating, and just plain healthy.

Doing really good.

So i think I'll just leave well enough alone....keep an eye on it, but that's about it.

tdwyatt · 02-25-2005, 02:17 AM

Only concerns I have at this point is the bioload, especially with cyanobacteria showing up. Definitely a watch and see situation, woudn't hurt to do a few ammonia tests over the next few weeks once every two or three days. fortunately the blue=green algae is capabe of directly utilizing ammonia/ammonium as a nitrogen source. If this starts to get out of hand, it is partially related to the nitrogen load from the fish population. Let us know if there appears to be an issue with the blue green algae.

Just watch for now, but don't replace any fish losses for a bit, wait for the tank to get to about 2 or 3 months maturity before replacing any more fishes. The problem will be handling both the feeding leftovers (even if the food appears to be gone, this is still a problem), and the fish respiration products.

Wouldn't hurt to get a pH meter rather than relying on the test kit and color matching, and for your current situation, you need to be testing for alk at least, better to be testing for Ca as well (Salifert kits).

good luck.

skeety · 02-25-2005, 06:47 AM

Thanks very much for the tips.

Lost the other Bangai this morning. All other fish still doing great. While every source said these are great starter fish, none said anything about being picky eaters. Maybe I just got them from a bad batch of fish. Either way, we had no plans on getting any more fish for a few months...so your advice just reinforces that.

I'll pick up the Alk and Ca test kits. Look into a pH meter (just what is that?)

I've been testing all levels every other day...and will continue to do so for the next month at least.

Thanks again for the help!

tdwyatt · 02-26-2005, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skeety

Look into a pH meter (just what is that?)

Look on the 'net for a Pinpoint pH meter, several good sites on-line, and you are relatively close to Something Fishy (511 E. 21st St., Northampton, PA 18067, 610-502-9760), might be worth a roadtrip drive up there (directions at www.toofishy.com), the guys up there are great and the prices are awesome for the Phily area, really good selection of critters and supplies.