OK, I'm at war with hair algae, please help (long post!)

[JennM]

I need help folks...I'm waging war with hair algae, and I can't seem to win. 2 weeks ago I scrubbed the rocks with a toothbrush, and it's trying to make a comeback again. This battle has been ongoing for several months now, and I'm not quite ready to admit defeat but I'm not above asking for some input This is my 'remote' tank it's not mine, but my customer's and I do 100 % of the maintenance, all they do is feed and add supplements.

Here's the scoop:

52 gallon corner tank, est. November 2000, 65 lbs of LR, 2 x 55 W PC (daylight and actinic), sump, Sea Life model 150 skimmer, Sen 700 return pump (throttled).

Specific Gravity: 1.023
PH: 8.2
Alk: 3.2 mq/l
Ammonia/Nitrite zero, Nitrate not detectible on hobbyist grade test kit.

Flame Angel, Lawnmower Blenny, Bicolor Pseudochromis, Melanopus Clown, Bubble Tip Anemone (over a year and getting large!), Arrow Crab, several hermits and astrea snails, Tiger Serpent Star. The only corals are a small colony of button polyps, small mushroom rock and a small frag of Xenia. The hair is even doing battle with these poor things.

The tank only gets RO water, gets serviced every other Thursday, I do a 10 % water change, clean skimmer etc. Have been changing the bag of carbon every month, use Kent Reef Carbon.

Customer adds Seachem Reef Pack sporadically, haven't tested calcium, but PH and Alk are steady. Photoperiod is now 8 hours, was 10 but I cut it back 2 hours, 2 weeks ago. Actinics on one hour before and one hour after daylights.

For the last 3 weeks, I've been running Phosguard. I didn't have a phosphate test, so I don't know the starting numbers, but 2 weeks ago, after 1 week of Phosguard, Silica still tested at 1, Phosphates negligable, but by the exhausted look of the Phosguard, I'd say it sucked out some nasties.

The ONLY thing I don't control is feeding, and I am pretty sure I've convinced them to feed just every other day. They were feeding copiously every day, although the water quality never indicated a problem, the excessive nutrients translated into first lots of Valonia, then lots of hair. Fortunately, the hair algae have choked out the Valonia so it's not a problem anymore, but the hair algae has become the bane of my existance.

What's weird, is that my own tanks get all the same stuff theirs do, EXCEPT the feedings, which they control, not me. My reef has no hair algae, my seahorse tank has a couple of tufts, that I remove regularly, but it's not become a scourge the way it has in my client's tank.

I'm at a loss...I've done everything that *I* recommend to others with a similar problem, so now I'm stumped.

Today there was some Cyano on the floor of the tank (just what I need!) I vacuumed out as much as I could, and redirected the return flow to increase the circulation in the front and center of the tank, hopefully that will aleviate that.

Any suggestions/experiences/sympathy would be much appreciated.

Jenn

[Spanky]

Lots of food = lots of phosphate.

Jenn it had to go somewhere, looks like it went into the rocks and sand (if there is any) and now they are saturated (so to speak) and it's leaching back out. nutrient sink

Jerel

[Rick O]

Hi Jenn,

I've had hair algae twice. I spent so much time trying to get rid of it that I feel like I'm an expert (although I'm not). Since the daily routine is out of your hands you can't really be too sure what's going on. I see that you're approaching this by controlling nutrients but I have found that that will not get rid of the existing HA. The only way I got rid of mine was to remove each rock and scrub it with a brush in a bucket of SW. This only gets the long stuff and still leaves some on the rocks. For that I put in a bunch of the large Mexican turbos. About one per gallon of tank volume. They are the only thing that I have found that eat HA and even then they won't eat the long stuff. The Mexican turbos are bulldozers and they don't live very long but they will do the trick.

Good luck.

[JennM]

Hmmm thanks Jerel, I hadn't thought about all the stuff sitting in the rocks/sand...

I have vacuumed the sand really well (shallow sand bed, it's a corner tank so there's not a lot of sand), I have swished off the rocks and scrubbed them a couple of times now, first for the Valonia and twice for the hair. Each time I do a cleaning, I rip out as many tufts as I can. HOPEFULLY they will resist the urge to feed the little buggers, that lawnmower blenny likes prepared foods more than the green stuff he's supposed to eat.

Guess I'll really keep them feeling guilty about feeding, and perhaps eventually all the phosphate and nutrients will be used up.

I s'pose it's better to have hair algae than bad water quality, right?

Should I keep changing out the phosphate sponge until it's in check?

Jenn

[Doug1]

Jenn, I sympathize with the dilema, fighting the same battle, so a couple thoughts
have them reduce feeding to subsistence levels(very **** little)
Stop using the seachem and get them on a kalk drip
10% water changes arent going to make a big dent in an existing problem, esp if the LR has become a nutrient sink.
Take a powerhead (strong) and sweep the rock, its amazing the crap that comes off I am in phase 2 of deep cleaning my reef using a Magnum canister trying to rid tank of exces debris
Good luck in the battle, its hard when you only get a limited amount of time

[vulkum]

think i may have the same problems. i get some cyno now and again and now i have a out break of hair algae as well. think i'll try the cleaning of the rock and vacuming of the sand. how do you do it without sucking the sand right into the filter? and arn't you killing all the critters when you use the magnum? i have tried it on the cyno before and always end up hearing the impeller chopping up sand.
thanks for the info
aaron

[JennM]

Well my trouble here is that this is a maintenance tank, not my own, so as was pointed out, my time is limited....

I sometimes drop in between scheduled visits, to check on things (and spoil my customer!), but they will not pay for extra visits, so it's a catch 22. Do I bite the bullet and go in to fix things, on my dime, or do I let things go between scheduled maintenance?

Nothing is suffering...if the animals were at risk, I wouldn't be thinking twice about just fixing it, but this isn't harming anything, it just looks ****ed ugly It reflects badly on ME as a maintenance contractor if the tank I maintain looks gross....so that's a factor too.

I got them to stop the Seachem additives a couple of weeks ago, until I got this figured out....I got them to stop EVERYTHING but a pinch of food every other day.....and I only have their word that they are sticking to that.

I have cleaned, scrubbed and rinsed the rock in SW several times, as recently as 2 weeks ago. The algae hasn't come back with the vengeance it did before, but it's still coming back. Have I possibly turned the corner? Or can I expect this to go on forever? Man I wish they had listened to my ORIGINAL feeding instructions....every other day.....but noooooo they "feel sorry" for their "starving fish".....ARGH.

Jenn

[Doug1]

Vulkum I dont put the intake that low in the tank, but use the baster or a powerhead to stir thingd up of the rock and sand so the magnum can suck it up.its a long process but over the course of a day you will pull out quite a bit of accumulated detritous, all potiential problems. Besides the corals can have a go at it while its in suspension
Jenn having limited time is really the pitts I know, as well as the frustration of the tank reflecting badly on you.. Your client needs to yunnerstand that the fish will scrounge thru the algae and find food to eat and the less they help the more it costs them in the long run. My thought is a few carefully performed major water changes to really dilute the nutrient levels and try to get the upper hand, like I said earlier 10% changes are barely puting a didnt in hi levels

[Brooke]

Jenn-

Just a couple of ideas. Maybe drip some kalk to tie up the phosphates and improve skimming. Next, have a couple of good detritus storms and add some temporary mechanical filtration to get rid of the excess detritus. Lastly, get a couple of the nudibranchs that eat hair. That's all I can think of for now...i'm sure you have racked your brain! Hope those suggestions help.

Jerel- does the homemade food also leach phosphates into the water?

Brooke

hehe...guess I didn't read Doug's thread with similar suggestions above .

[Alice]

Jenn,

Don't you just love some contracts?

I had one that the abolutely drove me batty. They couldn't do anything I advised. My last visit was after I heard them say "Well, of course we add top off water; when the tank starts blowing all those little bubbles, we add water."

Aargghhh.

Good luck with the hair algae; sounds like you're getting a handle on it. Did you say they have a sump? Maybe putting a light on it and growing some macro for export along with the other suggestions above?

Alice

[sculpin]

Having dealt with similar problems with my new system, this is my advice:

1) Your skimmer is too wimpy. Without sufficient export you will continue to fight this battle. As a temporizing measure, you can always add a couple of HOT skimmers (modified SeaClones work nicely) to the sump.
2) Your herbivores are insufficient. The addition of a small rabbitfish and a small tang would probably greatly decrease the amount of algae. Yes, I know that tangs/rabbitfish will eventually outgrow a small tank like that. However, that's an issue to be dealt with later. In my experience they do quite well as long as the fish start in the 2-3" size.
3) Although not something you are liable to fix at this point, the sand bed is probably too thin.
4) DON'T SCRUB THE ROCK! This will often trigger a re-cycle secondary to damage to the critters living in/on it.
5) Add a queen/fighting/detrivore conch. Without question one of the best and most entertaining herbivores you can add to a tank. The one I currently have started at 1" in October 2001 and is now 4" long.
6) I have never been convinced that phosphate lowering products make any impact whatsoever on algae growth. Just my personal bias, but I've completely stopped using them.
7) Don't starve the tank. As counterintuitive as that may seem I would continue to feed at regular levels. If you starve the tank, you also starve the infauna which will play a large role in decreasing excess organics/phosphates in the long run.
8) Consider adding Caulerpa or some other form of macroalgae. Macroalgaes can be very effective at out competing hair algaes for food. One trick is to get a clear plastic shower soapdish (about 4" deep, the ones shaped like a basin with slots on the side and rubber suction cups), put a strand or two of Caulerpa in it, and then attach it at the top of the tank so that the top of the dish is out of the water (so the Caulerpa won't escape). This can be a convenient micro refugium as well as algae export mechanism.

Hope this helps,

Mike

[tdwyatt]

Originally posted by sculpin
...1) Your skimmer is too wimpy...

I agree with Mike on this. The biggest problem you will have with a contract is that "the fish always come to the top when we come by the tank, THEY WERE STARVING!!! (so we had to feed them...)". In such a situations there is little you can do to impress the customer that the source of the algae is directly linked to the amount of fish nitrate (excreted ammonia converted to nitrate as a consequence of feeding the fish) produced in the tank. There is always phosphate in the food we give to the tanks, any consumable with proteins will have some phosphate (via ATP) which will accumulate in a system. In addition, you are dealing with a system that obviously has had long-term overfeeding. I also agree with Mike on the recommendation to not overfeed, although with this client, telling them to not overfeed may be falling on deaf ears (see above..."they're starving...") To keep this system nuisance algae free, you will prolly have to get them to buy an overkill skimmer, and although I prefer systems that are skimmerless, this would not be one that will do well without a powerful skimmer under current conditions.

2) Your herbivores are insufficient...

Although adding snails would be acceptable in this situation, I don't think adding consumers at this point in this situation would be appropriate. The client already overfeeds, will the intro of more fishes reduce their "need to feed"? In addition, addition of more fishes still only moves the nitrate through another biological level before putting it into the water column. Even if the fishes are consuming the algae (which I would normally suggest as an alternative), unless there are export mechanisms in place, the nitrate and phosphate will stay in the water column, perpetuating the problem. Although algal consumers are appropriate, extra fishes would only incite the client to feed more.

3) Although not something you are liable to fix at this point, the sand bed is probably too thin...

Very good point. This tank may be able to handle the bioload-sourced nitrate and heavy feeding if it were equipped with a DSB. This and heavy skimming would be the ultimate export mechansim for such a heavily fed system.

4) DON'T SCRUB THE ROCK!

Normally I would strongly agree with this, but in this system, having already scrubbed the rock once, it will prolly not hurt to do it a few more times. What would be better would be to scrape and siphon as much of the algae off as possible, using either a rough knobby tool specially made for this purpose, or a section of an old credit card. I almost would never suggest removing the rock from the tank any other time, but this is a client system that apparently has a "for show" art tank (correct me if I am wrong) and as much as I hate to say this, you are prolly the only one to give it the kind of dedication, patience, and attention that a reef tank requires to do well.

On adding the queen conch, I would definitely agree, might try to get a fighting queen conch instead if they want a smaller snail.

6) ...never been convinced that phosphate lowering products make any impact whatsoever on algae growth...

This is true to an extent. If the phosphates are locked up in either inorganic precipitated form or are in the biomass in the tank, the sponges will take everything in the water column and become saturated, then act pretty much the same way the sand acts after that, releasing some small amounts of phosphate as bacterial action releases it back into the water column. The phosphate remover sponges work on the principle of exchanging ions bound to aluminum for the phosphate, supposedly locking up the phosphate as Aluminum phosphate (VERY low solubility). However, many advanced aquarists have reported that these aluminum resin pads have a detrimental effect on Sarcophyton spp. of octocorals, and would be definitely contraindicated in those systems. If you do use the phosphate sponges, replace them once every week to 10 days to prevent releaching of the phosphate into the tank. Just as a precaution, I would test the carbon for phosphate, even though it may be reef grade, I occasionally find this to be a problem (not with Black Diamond, but some others have in the past)

7) Don't starve the tank...

Tough point to defend with this situation. If I were talking to a reefer that had complete control over what the inputs were to the system, I would totally agree with this point. The rational for not starving the tank is absolutely on target. The problem will be getting your client to realize that the level and appropriateness of the level of feeding is the main reason that the problem exists in the first place. If you do overfeed, the algae will continue to bloom, but if you don't feed, you'll see some problems with benthic infauna die-off, which could lead to a downward spiral making the problem worse. Your biggest challenge at this point will be to impress the importance of appropriate feeding on your client. That, and instilling patience in them, as this was a problem that may have occurred overnight, but will take some time to resolve. Nitrates will slowly leech out of the rock and upper levels of the sand bed, and these nitrates will be exported, either by harvesting the hair algae, exporting caulerpa or halimida, and the action of a DSB should you persuade them to install one.

Consider adding Caulerpa or some other form of macroalgae.

I like the dish idea, there are a ton of folks that will be able to put that suggestion to good use. However, with the problems in this system and the potential with this client to see it happen again, I would install a sump/refugium under the tank and harvest as much macroalgae as the system will support. Another thing to consider would be exporting water column nitrate with a small tray of xenia or other octocoral weed. Put it in as a trial for a week and see how it does, then remove it after the algal growth drops off. (Heh, maybe sell the new stalks as profit for the extra time you spend with this system!!!)


This system has a definite nitrate problem, and many clients just will not make the connection between feeding and the bloom, especially in a system with fishes. Adding a dosing pump with a kalk reactor would definitely be a plus, it will remove phosphate as inorganic phosphate from the water column to the sand bed, but many benthic microorganisms have the ability to utilize insoluble calcium phosphate anyway, making this means of lowering phosphate a temporary method of reduction at best. Prolly the most effective long term solution will be a refugium with a reverse photoperiod and export of the macroalgae that you grow in conjunction with a deep sand bed in the display and the sump/refugium as well.

Sorry for the extremely long post, I sympathize with you on trying to provide the best of care, but still seeing things happen that are beyond your control. The best you can hope for is that you'll impart a good education for your client and that they will take on a sense of ownership and responsibility for their system.

Hope this helps, BTW Mike, nice post, very good information!

[Reefer94]

No one has suggested Snails? Big-ass snails, like the one in the picture of my reef. That is a 30 gallon reef that had the same problem... I actually used to scrub the rock on a regular basis! What helped me out? Deepening the sandbed, for starters, and second... the big snails. Turbo snails, not Astreas, not Trocus grazers, etc... Turbo (Turbine) Snails. About one to every ten gallons. They will do the trick I swear. I have had several people try it. It works. These snails will annihilate algae -- all types.

First it cured my 30 gallon monster, then it cured the 55 gallon nightmare, now, I've put two in another 30 gallon FO... and they are tearing it up. The local petco has 'em.

[RJ]

Jenn...I went thru the exact same thing....snails did nothing...heavy skimming did nothing....not feeding helped...but beginning to grow macroalgae was the way to go....mine kind of started by accident....a piece came in on a piece of coral with liverock I had picked up....it took off...competing and winning the nutrients....it now grows like crazy so obviously the nutrients are still coming from somewhere..but its ALOT easier to deal with plus it's kinda cool looking!...pick some up from a friend's tank and drop it in....it'll take over!

[Doug1]

The problem with growing macro algae to out compete the bad stuff is that it tends to take on a life of its own. As illustrated it can overrun a tank if the conditions are right, to the point of crowding desirable corals. You can add a herbivore such as a tang, but then there is the space and waste issues to deal with, mandating a well established DSB and or a super skimmer to deal with the extra load.
\You can pluck and trim it frequently whick will export nutrients but it can still be unsightly in a coral tank. Better to raise it in a seperate area of the system, that way you get the benefits without having to deal with it in your display tank.
This sort of mimics nature in that healthy reef environments usually have little algae growing but adjacient sea grass bed, mangrove swamps, etc help keep the nutrients down while providing valuable nursery areas for various critter who's larvae are vital food sources to the reef. Then again increasing system size in relation to the display tank helps to, tho its a drop in the bucket compared to the dilution available in the ocean