Newbie questions

[jcesl2]

Hi. I thought I would post a couple questions for you guys. First, let me say that I really like the forum. My wife thinks Im weird for sitting in front of the computer laughing while I read about fish, but I like it.

Anyway, I have several years experience with cichlid tanks, and decided to convert one to salt water. Its a hex tank, somewhere between 38 and 50 gallons. I bought it used and have gotten different answers from every LFS I have asked on what the actual size is. Its a week into cycling, and for now has 2 damsels and 2 green chromis in it. And before you ask, yes the damsels will get returned to the store in a month

I have some LR on order. 20 pounds so far, planning on about 50 total. It has a Millenium 2000 filter and 2 AquaClear 4000 powerheads right now. Im planning on putting a Remora on it next month.

As far as lighting goes, the CustomSeaLife PowerCompact/Moon-Lite is the only light I have found that will fit, since they make a 21" light. If I get a 24", the legs wont be able to fit on the tank. Does anyone know of any other lighting option if I want a reef setup? I realize that with PC lighting I will be very limited on corals.

My other question is on stocking. This is what I am tentatively planning, so that I can satisfy the wife and kid.

False Percula Clown w/ Carpet Anenome
Jawfish
Yellow Hawaiian Tang (as my daughter would say, "oooh, bubbles")
some type of dwarf angel or reef safe wrasse
Keeping the 2 green chromis
Dwarf Lionfish

some snails, crabs, a couple shrimp, and an urchin
small clam and a flame scallop
2 soft corals (that require low or moderate lighting)


I realize that the dwarf lionfish will sometimes eat small fish and shrimp. I would wait until the chromis are a decent size, and I have been told that if you feed them regularly, they will leave the shrimp alone. Is that true?

Finally, is that overstocking the tank? If it is, would it still be overstocked without the lionfish?

Thanks. I know this a long post, but I figured if I put all my info in the first post, nobody will have to ask me later

[wanareef]

Welcome to the addiction, er madness, er hobby.

The tang get big and would need more swiming room than your tank allows, the lion fish - that's another story and MOP should only be in a FOWLR tank.

Another way to cycle the tank is to have cured rock in place, since you will be adding LR soon, you will have another cycle maybe a small one maybe not, but it will cycle again. Another way to kick start the cycle is ammonium chloride instead of the "cocktail" shrimp of damsels.

I have seen a hex with one MH on it with two small VHO's. I'll try and find that link. With a MH you can keep almost anything. But you have to be careful about animals growing too big and stay with the small stuff. Carpets and clams need the light and the room, so you will need the MH.

hth

[jcesl2]

Thanks for the reply. If you could find any info on a MH fixture that would fit my tank, that would be great.

The live rock I ordered is already cured. Its from http://www.aquariumarts.com/ so I shouldnt have to cycle again after the rock.

Is ammonium chloride called something else in the stores? Ive never seen it before. Part of the reason I want the yellow tang, well besides Finding Nemo anyway, is cause it only gets 8 inches long. Is that still too big for my tank?

[wanareef]

Even though the LR is "cured" you will have a slight die off during shipping. Ths ammonium chloride I got from my LFS - he's a chemist. Mybe you can find it at apharmacy. But since you have the fish in there you might as well go that way. Just a little more humane way of cycling the tank 0 w/o the fish.

The tang is a swimmer and will need the room - more in a rectangular style tank. IMO it would be too big for your hex.

[tims]

welcome to TRT...

i have a 65 hex also set up with corals and LR in it. sounds like you might have the what is it.....42 gallon i think it was...

i would agree with wanna.. even if the rock is cured by the time i gets to you.... i would get all the rock in as soon as you can....
that is a lot of fish

as far as the wrasse six line's as really cool and are not that bit.
just watch your flame scallop , i have one that is fully attached to some base rock. he is very very very happy now. But from what i have seen and read.. about 30 % or so actually live more than a month... wait till you see him move... my daughter calls him "pac man"

you might want to set up another tank for fish only if you want the nemo cast....
with the cycling... some have used ammonia (sp?) just a little bit to start the cycle. but with the chromis in there that might not be the best thing....

HTH

[Geoff]

Welcome to TRT!!!!



that is a lot of fish. SW can not handle the bioload that you are used to with FW. 3 fish may be about it for that sized tank.

i would do the perc, the jawfish and the 2 chromis and call it good.

you probably will not find a fixture that will fit right on that tank. you may need to make it. the anemone will need intense lighting. MH lighting will be needed. prolly a 250w'er.

you need to get the skimmer going as soon as ou can.

as for the hang on filters. these should be cleaned at least once a week. they trap detritus and if they are not cleaned regularly the will release phoshates back into the water column causing nuisance algae and cyano.

hth,

G~

[jcesl2]

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate it.

Sounds like the ammonium chloride is a good idea for the next time I have to cycle one then.

Having the Nemo cast isn't really my idea. My wife wants all the invertebrates (I forgot to add a starfish on that list) and my daughter wants ALL the Nemo cast. Including a shark and a sea turtle. Everytime I try and explain that you can't do that, she tells me "fish are friends, not food!" and walks away.

Anyway, after I satisfy them, it sounds like there is no room for anything I want. 3-4 fish max.... Maybe I will trade in the chromis with the damsels.

So would this work?

flase percula clown
jawfish
dwarf angel or a wrasse


That would be 3.

[tims]

Originally posted by jcesl2
Everytime I try and explain that you can't do that, she tells me "fish are friends, not food!" and walks away.

i know what you are talking about... have a 7 yr.old

that sounds like a plan..

good luck

[MiddletonMark]

That sounds like a much better idea of stocking.

On the anemone, beyond needing intense light ... as this is your first saltwater tank I would be very careful about which you choose, and wait to stock it. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but anemones are not one of the glowing successes of our hobby ... as well put here:
http://www.reefs.org/library/article/r_toonen8.html
Which is a fairly informative article about anemones. I'd research a lot about them before getting them. I'd also seriously consider getting a captive-propagated one, usually these are Bubble Tip Anemones [including a gorgeous Rose colored form] ... as they are tank-raised, used to aquarium life, and one of the hardier species available.
Do a lot of research on anemones before going forward, there are some that are much better choices than others ... though all require good lighting, stable water conditions, and at least in the wild could potentially outlive your daughter [though most do not make it much past a year or two in aquaria]. Some have great success with anemones ... just do yourself the favor of avoiding the heartbreak and research, plan, and choose well.
Success CAN be had, it just ain't easy with more delicate species.

[jcesl2]

Thanks for the info.

Where do you get the aquacultured aneones at? All the places online that I have seen have wild ones. A bubble tip would satisfy my wife. Only problem is the marinedepot "Symbiotic Map of Clowns & Anemones" doesnt list it as compatible for a percula or false percula. I was following that when I said a carpet anenome.


Thats a good article. Maybe my wife will read it and change her mind. Anyway, he does say that the bubble tips are the best ones to get. You sure a false perc would be ok in one?

[CAT]

Even if you find an anemone you can keep there's no guarantee that the clown will host it. The best clowns to get are tank-raised and many will not host in anything. I've had mine for about 8 months and he just hangs at the front of the tank.

I had a Hepatus tang (Dory) in my last tank, and even when the tang was only 4", the 4 foot tank I had wasn't good enough for a decent charge accross the front

Your new list of critters sounds good. What are the dimentions of your tank? Shouldn't be too hard to work it out in gallons.

[jcesl2]

Ok, a tang's out And yeah, I was planning on a tank raised clown.

I think my daughter is getting tired of hearing "Wait till we get a house" as reasons she cant have the fish she wants, a dog, a cat, a swing, set up all her barbie stuff... Im forgetting a couple there.


Anyway, the tank is 24" high, 25" wide at its widest points, flat side to flat side is 22", and the actual panes of glass are 12" wide. I posted on another forum and was told by a couple people its a 42 gallon.

[MiddletonMark]

Just realize, it's easier to have her want than be all depressed that something died.

As for captive propagated ones ... they're around. I think Premium Aquatics sells them from time to time [rarely if ever MD] ... also a number of other online shops. There's a guy named Alvin who has supplied two people I know with them ... I think sells on Ebay [?] ... but if you search on Alvin and Rose BTA or RBTA on RC I know you'll find good references.

But they're becoming more available. Not totally simple to find, but plenty of good vendors get them in from time to time.

[OodleyBoodely]

Ok, it's my turn!

I think you narrowed your list admirably, but, I'd still like to throw a little more gas on the fire.

dwarf angels; they all have tendency to nibble on certain corals, such as large-polyp stoneys and on clam mantles. Getting one does not automatically mean yours will, however, they do have a well deserved reputation for it. Flames and pygmy angels are likely the hardiest of the usual offerings. Both, and especially the pygmy can be pugnacious little snots so add this fish last.

wrasse; there's lots of differant species- some are impossible to keep, some get too big, aren't reefsafe, too aggressive, too meek,ect. Know your wrasse befor you buy! One good choice for your setup would be a sixline. If you don't get a pygmy, you could choose a flasher wrasse such as the carpenters or longfins(a pygmy would chase these guys right out of the tank).

Oscellaris clown - Good choice! I've had a pair going on 4 years now and still think they are great. They are not as aggressive as many clownfish and mine have never been diggers like my maroons were. A single fish may not choose to host with an anemone or coral, but if he does, don't be surprised if it chooses a coral even if an anemone is available. Mine had two bta to pick from but chose the colt coral instead. When my colt died, they moved to the xenia forest above the two anemones. Go figure!

Anemones. The bubble tip (bta) is your best choice. It is hardy, attractive, will host clownfish if they choose, comes in green, brown, and gorgous rose, least likely of the hosting anemones to eat your other fish, and, if they like your tank will bless you by cloning itself.
I don't recommend the carpet or saddle carpet. They can be kept ok if the right environment is set for them, but, they get very large and are consumate fish predators. Thats right, they will eat your fish, including the clown if it has not annoited itself with the anemones mucus (hosted with it). These fish are know to capture and ingest healthy full grown tangs, so the little fish we are discussing would be no match. I learned this lesson the hard way. I just couldn't resist buying a gorgeous teal saddlecarpet. Within 3 days of putting it in my reef it caught and ate all but two of my fish, out of 6 fish, and then it died, too. That was when I was a newby, befor TRT.

Hope this helps with your decisions on stocking your tank.

[jcesl2]

Originally posted by MiddletonMark
but if you search on Alvin and Rose BTA or RBTA on RC I know you'll find good references.

Whats RC?

OodleyBoodely- My wife will be happy with the bubble tip, so thats what we're going to get.

If I get an angel, it will be a flame or pygmy. Im leaning towards an angel over a wrasse cause I havent seen any wrasses in a LFS. And from pictures on the internet, they dont look good. I thought Queen Angels were ugly from pictures I saw until I saw one in real life.

I think Im set on what I will basically end up with. Except I may be getting a credit increase on a credit card next week. If that happens, I think I need a 90 gallon tank Im so glad my wife likes fish too. And if I get the 90 gallon... maybe I can get a yellow tang or two.