newbie intro and question

[Fred]

Hi all,
I'm just getting back into aquariums after 20 years and bought a 55 gal setup a year ago that I have just converted from fresh to salt water. I am still running my Emperor filter and have added 2 power heads, have 1 in. of crushed coral (because I liked the way it looked over sand), and so far about 40-50 lbs. of LR. I purchased a compact light kit at A H Supply with 4-55w bulbs. I'll probably end up making 2- 24 in. long hoods for the light kit because the recomended 9 inches minimum width hood won't allow me access into my 12 in. tank without moving the whole thing. This way I can slide one out of the way, but I won't be able to run the blues separatly from the whites. Today I added 10 small blue leg hermits and a fire shrimp and can't wait to begin adding more fish and corals. The LFS also has me adding C-Balance.

I am in the process of purchasing a skimmer and have been looking at the Red Sea Prizm and the AquaC Remora. The Prizm is considerably less money and carried by the LFS who say it's "state of the art", but I didn't like the way the collection cup came off. I cannot see the Remora in person. I would prefer a HOT model at this early stage of the game and would value any and all input on what I have going and what I should add.

Congratulations on a fantastic board! I wish I had found it sooner.

Fred

[Doug1]

Prizm is a nice skimmer for small tanks but state of the art NO, for a 55 your better off with the Remora or Remora pro,IMO

hey fred
Ok well best advice you'll ever get is buy a book. They will be helpful in steering you away from impulse or otherwise unitelligent purchases ( we all make a few here and there) On a 55 gallon reef set-up. I would dump the canister filter it will only cause you more problems. The 4 55w pc are a tad under powered for a reef 4 96w is better a couple halides is even better. If cost is a issue save you money now and do it right from the begining it will be far cheaper then constantly buying equipment or chemicals
If i was in you shoes i would do the following.
1 Buy a 30gallon tank and use it as a sump. Get a really good skimmer either ETS, Lifereef, aquac, euroreef, etc etc. The skimmer in my opinion is the workhorse of filtration.
2 Get rid of all your hermit crabs. The eat snails and just arent as reef safe as some would say. Purchase only snails I have 5 species in a setup i just finished.
3 get live rock good quality live rock either from Premium aquatics, jeffs exotics, or elso where with live rock encrusted life.
4 Keep circulation to at the least 10times the aquarium volume. 55 gallon 550 gallon per hour pump at the least.
5 Deep sand bed 4-6 inches this will be seeded using either IPSF detrivoure kit or inland aquatics kit. In time this alone will provide enough bacterial filtration to handle your system.
6 Read Read Read. Ask about 1,000,000 questions. You should get formiliar with calcium, alk, temp, salinty and what levels they are at in a natural reef enviorment. to give you an idea here is a link to the tank i just finished look over the technical and you will get a basic idea of where you may want to be
nullweb page click here for the 46 gallon reef I just finished.

[Doug1]

If you are looking at 4x55w PC look at 4x110 watts VHO, als look at replacement bulb costs 6-8 mo on PC vs + yrs on VHO with icecap ballast. At the very least go with the 96 vs 55w I have a soft coral tank and am upping the lighting to 600+ watts(see my sig) FWIW
Read a few books, Conscientious Marine Aquarist(Fenner) Natural Reefs(Tullock) and ask ???????? formulate a plan before spending big bucks and having to scrap marginal lighting or skimmer later, it just drives the cost up. The only cheap reef is a 10g nano with a 9226 LOA and actinic supplement and a lot of water changes. Reefs are a much more complex scenario than a fish only but learning is half the fun, Enjoy

[Fred]

Thanks for the input Doug & Mike.
To follow up... I ordered one of the recomended books a couple days ago, so most of my limited knowledge so far has come from the owner of the LFS and what I can figure out on the web (so many acronyms it's like reading code sometimes
He is the only show in town who sells LR and of course told me not to buy it online because it would take 8 weeks to get it ready for a tank (which he showed me how he does it) and mail order LR could spike the ammonia levels in my tank because of die-off from only being shipped in wet newspaper. It came from Fiji. I really don't know if it's good or bad LR, Mike, but would certainly like your or anyone else's opinions on what I was told. It looks like it has stuff growing on it and it cycled my tank in 2 weeks according to tests.
As far as lighting goes, I didn't compare prices and went with the PC (I have already purchased) because I thought you only needed over 4w/gal and it was sufficiently keeping the corals alive in the office tank (a forty or 50 I believe) of the LFS. They run MH, VHO's and Icecaps on display tanks also. I was really confused here and went with the most thorough sounding kit I could build my own hood for. Live and learn, we'll see what happens and I'll go with the MH on my next tank along with a more complex setup like sumps, water top-offs and the like. I'm already looking at larger tanks and maybe my present 55g will be a fish only down the road once I get going.
BTW, how does a cannister filter cause problems? If nothing else it helps circulate water.

Thanks again for helping me learn how far marine aquariums have come since I last had one.

Fred

[FishDaddy]

Hi Fred,

Mike and Doug have given good advice. As you can see, there are many opinions and different ways to set up a successful tank.
At this stage of your tank's development, the important thing is to get a good sandbed going and the live rock you need, together with a good skimmer.
A 4~6" sandbed will eventually (in a year or so) provide your tank with all the biofiltration needed. It will be maturing in the meantime and, together with your live rock, will support a modest bioload with a good skimmer. Patience is soooo important at this stage. You can expect a series of algae blooms, perfectly normal; and its a good idea to go slow with fish or corals until the tank stabilizes. I usually recommend waiting 3 months after initial setup to add fish and another 3 months before adding corals.
Please look at these sites for great info on live rock and sandbeds: http://www.reefs.org/library/article/n_cope.html http://www.reefkeepers.org/faq/cache/33.html

I have the standard Remora on my 55 with a Maxi-Jet 1200. The supplied Rio's are just not reliable. Some dealers are actually kicking in a Maxi Jet at time of purchase. See http://www.Premiumaquatics.com
The Remora is good; the Remora Pro would be better.
Good live rock is readily available on line; see the suppliers Mike suggested. It is shipped next day air and die off is minimal at this time of year from a good supplier. You can expect some but you really don't need more than another 25-30 lbs. You should anticipate a possible ammonia spike and be prepared to do water changes. Again, you might not see any.
BTW, the LFS got his rocks from the same place online suppliers get theirs: shipped from Fiji in wet newspapers!!!
With sufficient live rock, sand and a good skimmer, the cannister filters are unneccessary. In fact, unless cleaned regularly (every 2-3 days ) organic particles and detritus will be trapped in the filter media, decompose, and add nitrates to your tank.
For circulation, 3~4 powerheads (I use Maxi-Jet 600's in my 55) and your skimmer is all you need. Make sure at least one of them is causing surface agitation and another down low to sweep across the sandbed.
Blue Leg hermits do not belong in reef tanks!!! I put 2 dozen in my 55 at the start and they became a roving band of blue-legged Huns, ravaging the snails and causing general havoc!! Please see this article by Dr. Ron Shimek: http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish/li...=&RecordNo=166
Again, glad to have you with us!
Dick

[Fred]

Hi Dick,
Thanks for the welcome and explaining why cannister filters are harmful. I'll ditch mine as soon as my Remora with the pump you recommended comes in. BTW, do you have a problem with the bubbles like Prem. Aqu. mentioned from using the other pump?

The way I understand Cope's article, I only need a min. two inches of live sand, although I can also see why more would be better. Do you think it would be ok to add a couple inches of LS on top of the 1 in. crushed coral base I have now. I believe he said crushed coral was an acceptable bed and it would eventually turn live, right? To be honest, it took me two hours to get the LR I have now where I like it and I'm hoping to cheat a little bit and not take everything out to start over, unless the majority opinion feels it's neccessary. I also plan on adding another 25 lbs. LR and hope that I don't get a spike that might harm my fire shrimp.

I liked the article on the hermit crabs vs. snails. I only have 10 crabs the size of a little fingernail compared to the 70-100 in a 55g he (Ron?) said was normal, so I will keep a close eye on my hermits when I add snails and other life in case they feel they don't have enough cleanup to do with the missed food and start harrassing the rest.

Thanks for the link to P.A., it's hard to know who the reputable online stores are without a little help.

Fred

[FishDaddy]

Hey Fred,
I think Dr. Ron was referring to the number of hermits many dealers "normally" recommend. Hermits are not common on reefs and when they are found, they are few in numbers. Because of my own experiences with them I cannot recommend hermits, especially Blue-legs for the typical reef tank.
As for the substrate, now would be the best time to pull the crushed coral and put in a proper sandbed. I did the same thing to my 55 about a month after setting it up. Yes, it was a pain to rearrange the rocks, but well worth it in the long run. You will be doing some rearranging to accomodate the new 25$ of rock anyway. The crushed coral doesn't provide the same anaerobic conditions as sand; much of it will eventually migrate toward the surface; and inhibits the travel of sand dwelling critters through the substrate. Many have added sand to their crushed coral beds because their tank was more established and it would be a great hassle. It would probably work but a purebred DSB will greatly benefit your tank in the long run.
When adding a significant amount of new live rock, its a good idea to "recure" the rock in 5 gal buckets or a rubbermaid tub before adding it to your tank. Mix the water to the same specific gravity and keep it at the same temperature as your tank; provide circulation with a powerhead, and check for a cycle just as you would in the tank.
Once this is done, it would be the opportune time to pull the crushed coral, arrange your rock, add your new sandbed, and sit back and watch it mature!
Dick

[Fred]

Hi All,

After reading NRA's by Tullock, I realized after looking closely at one of his pictures on page 65 that what the LFS and subsequently I were calling crushed coral is Aragonite. So, my question is, when people refer to having a DSB are they talking the 45% of this 25% of that... that Inland Aquatics recommends (where what I already have in my aquarium is one of the layers) or using all fine sand? Just want to make sure before I tear down and rebuild, I would hate to throw it away if it can be used in my DSB.
Also, what is the advantage to using a sump besides being able to hide your heaters and skimmer? Is it the larger water volume you can move? I saw two different kinds at the LFS, a Tidepool that had media cartridges and one I can't remember the name of, but it had all the plumbing with it, blue bioballs, and was more solid looking with a clear plexiglass construction and lid. Both would fit under a 55g stand. On the DIY site from your link page there is a kit for a sump that looks much more complicated than what either of the two I saw were, so I'm not sure if I want to make my own or buy one. Any recommendations?

Thanks again,
Fred

Fred
Some reefers save money by buying rubbermaid container and placing them under the tank. You can even use a regular old fish tank try to get the biggest container or fish tank you can find that will fit. This will help you down the road placing equipment. Someday you may want to look into a insump skimmer like the ETS model or get the tank or container drilled so you can have an external filter like Lifereef. The sump will give you addition water volume this alone should be more then enough of a reason to get one. Do the math you have say a 110 gallon aquarium and a 30 gallon sump. In terms od water volume you have actually a 140 gallon tank( oh and dose chemicals to the total water volume not the volume of just the tank) that extra 30 gallon is helpful in it give you a margin of safety when pollutants are running a muck in your tank. A canister filter can not hold that kind of water volume.Reef tanks also like stable water quality and this is easier the more water you have. I am planning my next tank a 120 gallon and plan on having a 30 gallon sump plus a 30 gallon refugium.Thats an additional 60 gallons so in reality the total water volume is 180. As you can see there are 2,000,000 ways of doing a reef tank. I generally look at other peoples tanks and took ideas i liked from them and try to replicate those ideas for my tanks. Just keep in mind if you have any questions ask. I too believed that LFS where the only real source of quality reef products. I learned that you can find better live rock on the internet and at a cheaper price. The first tank I ever set-up was with live rock that cost me 10 a lb which pretty much had minimal life on it. It had no purple coraline algea nothing just bare rock compare to rock i have seen on the internet. My friend purchased rock from Jeefs exotic fish he spent $200 dollars for 50 lbs and the rock is full of coraline algea, fan worms, and some sponges. So if you want a nice reef tank dont be afriad to ask.

[Fred]

Thanks MrMike. Since posting my last question I have visited many sites of peoples aquariums and paid close attention to their equipment setup. I have decided to build my own sump based on a great article I found at
http://www.northernreef.org/sumps101.htm
I plan on increasing my original size to add more water volume based on what you have told me and stretching the middle compartment to include a DSB and more LR based on other sumps I have seen. My Remora skimmer (which is working great) will hang in the sump. Gotta love the internet for the info you can dig up!