Need to know if I'm in the right direction?

[Buster]

Hello,

I'm pretty new to this stuff. I'll start out by telling you all about my tank. It's a 37 gl tall (try'n to be a reef tank) 175 metal hylide 2 power compacts about 40 pounds of live rock, 15 bls of live sand. I run a wet/dry sump with out any bio balls. I do have about 3inch's of filter media where the bio balls used to be (is this ok?). All my levels are 0'ed out ph is good. I have about 12 snails 9 crabs, a camel back shrimp, 3 green cromis's, algea blennie, star pollips, and a collony of of green mushrooms everything seems to be living well. It's been up and running for almost 3 months and I don't plan on using a protein skimmer. Is this ok? What kind of live stalk would you suggest to keep everything happy? I do have bright green algea growing over almost all of my rock. It's short brilliant green stuff and hard to get off the glass if not cleaned every day. What is it or is it good or bad? I think I may have my lights on a little to long? The hylide is on about 11hrs a day because I haven't got a timmer yet. I only need them on for about 7 hours right? I do add Kalkwasser and B-ionics about everyday. Also, I'm looking forward to lush green coraline what is the time frame for it's arrival? I do regular water changes and my salinity is .022.
What should I add next? Any suggestion on may set up and help would be great.

Thanks in advance
Buster

[Doug1]

Hey Buster, WELCOME to The Reef Tank
Tank sounds good. Its finished the nitrogen cycle and sounds like its going thru the nitrate phase. Even tho you read ) on tests the algae you hvae growing are sucking it up and using it as fuel to grow on. I would definatly cut the MH back to about 7 hrs a day. with the fish you have in there now a skimmer wouldnt be a bad idea, IMO but water changes will help keep nitrates down,(see threads re: ammonia spike and got an RO unit)
FWIW camel shrimp are very apt to munch on star polyps and the like. You can add a lot of different varieties of shrooms and stars, etc and even some small toadstools or leather coral and they should do well in your tank.
I would rememeber to rinse the filter media frequently to help keep nitrates down, Have Fun

[FishDaddy]

Hi Buster,

Good to have you with us!
I would second what Doug says....after all, he knows a lot more than I!
From the algae you are having, it sounds like a combination of new tank, water quality and lighting. What is the Kelvin rating of your bulbs? What are you using for source water? RO/DI water is the only way to go. I would also slowly increase your specific gravity up to 1.025 or so. Slowly is the operative word; not more than .001 in a 24 hour period, even less is better. A skimmer would help with the nutrient export in combination with the Kalkwasser, especially Phosphates and excess organics.

You might also want to consider adding some more sand to your sandbed. 4-6" is considered optimum for a DSB to be an effective biofilter. Over time, the DSB alone can support your tank's bioload.
See:
http://www.rshimek.com/reef/sediment.htm

For good info on clean up critters, see:
http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish/li...=&RecordNo=166

I wouldn't be in a hurry to add anything else at this time. Let the tank simmer, read, and enjoy.
Again, Welcome to TRT!
Dick

[Buster]

Doug1 and fishdaddy,

Thanks for the advice! I was try'n to firgure out if i should put a sand bed in the sump? (wet/dry?) I don't no if the live sand needs light? I don't think I want to just start dumping sand in and mess something up. By the way, I purchased two timers today. One for the Hylide and fan. One for the power compact.
I'll want to keep the power compacts on for about 11 or 12 hours right?

Good night
Buster

Originally posted by Doug1
Hey Buster, WELCOME to The Reef Tank
Tank sounds good. Its finished the nitrogen cycle and sounds like its going thru the nitrate phase. Even tho you read ) on tests the algae you hvae growing are sucking it up and using it as fuel to grow on. I would definatly cut the MH back to about 7 hrs a day. with the fish you have in there now a skimmer wouldnt be a bad idea, IMO but water changes will help keep nitrates down,(see threads re: ammonia spike and got an RO unit)
FWIW camel shrimp are very apt to munch on star polyps and the like. You can add a lot of different varieties of shrooms and stars, etc and even some small toadstools or leather coral and they should do well in your tank.
I would rememeber to rinse the filter media frequently to help keep nitrates down, Have Fun

[CaymanLoversII]

Hi Buster -

Be sure you clean out the filter media to kill off the bacteria or you will have continually rising nitrates.

Steve

[Buster]

I try my best to keep up. I just got timmers for my lights today (only after two months of it running hahaha..) I'm still undecided about running a protein skimmer?? Some say yeah and some say naw.?? I'm thinking, I want to see how mother nature heals it's self and stay up on my water changes?? I pay way to much attention to my tank not to notice any of the smallest changes. Good or bad. I heard of people keeping tanks for years without. I don't know.
Plus, all the controvery about what one to use. Some say, most potein skimmers barely work, some say they work too much, and some perfur not running one at all???? I've have used them on marine tanks and I've seen the benifits.
But I'm thinking in a reef tank you want a perfect balance.
Unatainable in a F/O tank. I am new to this and love hearing all the different opinions! Skimming is all a game of chance I guess?
What do you think?

All advice greatly needed.

Thanks again
Buster

[FishDaddy]

Buster,
A DSB in the sump works just fine....bear in mind that you need at least 4" for optimal performance and that takes up quite a bit of room in many small sumps. You also don't have as much surface area and volume for denitrification as you would in the main tank. Light is unnecessary for a sandbed in a sump. The bacteria and small crustaceans/worms don't need it.

IMHO, in order for a reef to maintain water quality without a skimmer, you need a mature DSB (takes a year or more for a sandbed to fully mature to be able to support a normal bioload) and plenty of live rock. Regular water changes and RO/DI water are also important if you go skimmerless. I don't think it is possible to achieve a perfect balance that stays perfect. Fish do poop; food introduces organic matter and Phosphates; corals slime; and a host of other things affect the eco-balance and water chemistry on a daily basis. The skimmer also provides another valuable service to the tank by providing additional oxygenation. It is my observation that the vast majority of reefers who have successfully kept a reef for more than a year use a skimmer.

Some advocate a plenum (Marine Ecosystem), which if properly installed, can effect an excellent biofiltration system. Galleon can tell you more about this type setup.

For a typical modest sized hobbyist tank, particularly a new one, the benefits of a skimmer far outweigh any possible negatives. Of course, all skimmers are not created equal. Some of the el cheapos are nearly worthless. Like any device associated with your reef, they do need regular cleaning to maintain efficiency.

I use a Remora with Maxi-Jet 1200 upgrade on my 55 reef and a BakPak2R with MJ1200 upgrade on my 38 FOWLR/semi-reef. Either skimmer would be excellent for your size tank.
Dick

[Buster]

What am i looking at as far as cost on one of those bad boys?
One other qustion, what is the general rule of thumb far coraline to start growin? What kind of problem might I run into if I where using triple filtered soften water as my add water mixed with Kalkwasser?

Thanks again
Buster

[Allyson]

Not going against what the pros on this board say about skimmers...they have really helped me get my reef set up and I do look forward to their sharing their knowledge with me in the future... but if I've decided not to run a skimmer on my 30 gal for a couple of reasons. 1st $$$$$, 2nd I've seen some very nice systems running beautifully without one, by just using a sump with a DSB & macro algae. Here's a link to a member of our local reef society's tanks running skimmerless suetruett.homestead.com

Good Luck!

[FishDaddy]

Buster,
A good skimmer for your size tank is going to run you between $100 and $175, depending on accessories.
For comparison purposes, here are prices from Premium Aquatics for skimmers suitable for a 37~40 gal. tank?:

Bak Pak 2R. One of the most popular.
In sump BP2R - $99.95
Hang on BP2R - $128.95

Remora.
In sump Urchin - $158.95
Hang on Remora -$158.95

Red Sea Prizm - $77.90
More skimmers here:
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merch..._Code=Skimmers
I use PA for comparison purposes. You might want to shop around for special deals.

My choice for your tank would be the in sump BP2R if you can fit it in your cabinet and sump.

"Not going against what the pros on this board say..."

Allyson,
I'm certainly no Pro and Sue Truett is an accomplished reefer! I don't really mean to be a skimmer advocate but I do believe that using a skimmer for a new reefer affords a better chance at keeping tank conditions good by removing excess organic nutrients. I've often said that there are many ways to setup a successful reef and there is no one single best way.
Dick

[Buster]

Thanks FishDaddy,

I'll do some searching. Have you heard any negatives about using triple filtered soften water???? It seems like it's working fine? It's not killing anything and my pollips are growing as well as my mushrooms. Any suggestions on that topic?

Thanks a bunch for the help.

Buster

Originally posted by FishDaddy
Buster,
A good skimmer for your size tank is going to run you between $100 and $175, depending on accessories.
For comparison purposes, here are prices from Premium Aquatics for skimmers suitable for a 37~40 gal. tank?:

Bak Pak 2R. One of the most popular.
In sump BP2R - $99.95
Hang on BP2R - $128.95

Remora.
In sump Urchin - $158.95
Hang on Remora -$158.95

Red Sea Prizm - $77.90
More skimmers here:
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merch..._Code=Skimmers
I use PA for comparison purposes. You might want to shop around for special deals.

My choice for your tank would be the in sump BP2R if you can fit it in your cabinet and sump.


Allyson,
I'm certainly no Pro and Sue Truett is an accomplished reefer! I don't really mean to be a skimmer advocate but I do believe that using a skimmer for a new reefer affords a better chance at keeping tank conditions good by removing excess organic nutrients. I've often said that there are many ways to setup a successful reef and there is no one single best way.
Dick

[Allyson]

Hey if I had the extra cash I'd probably have one. Just giving options. Although I'm one to take the road less traveled and see if I can make it work.

Good luck Buster, you've definitely come to the right place for help!

[FishDaddy]

Buster,
I'm not aware of any negatives with using softened water and I've heard of reefers who use water softeners ahead of their RO/DI systems.
What are the "triple" filters that you have on your softener? If you have 1 micron Sediment, Carbon, and DI filters, you've got everything but the RO membrane.
The typical home drinking water filters such as I have used on a well system, did remove sediments and the carbon filter helped taste but I wouldn't expect the degree of filtration as the filters that come with RO/DI units.
From what I understand, a softener can aid in making your RO membranes last longer, especially if you have hard water.
Dick

[Doug1]

I gotta agree with Fish Daddy they is no "one" correct way, but every method has its pros and cons. Skimmerless tanks are fine if one goes slowly and ramps up the bioload while getting the algae to grow. I think a lot of people see the hang on refugiums that are offered for sale and think, aha, thats the ticket, but IMO a serious refuge/algae filter shoulb be at least the foot print of the display tank if not bigger.
A skimmer is a valuable tool that will compensate for a lot of learning
And having seen Sues tanks over the years, I can say that shes a very accomplished reefer who went thru the learning process just like the rest of us