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Old 04-29-2001, 01:58 AM   #1
DaveJ
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Need some ideas and direction


Well with the first post out of the way, I can't say I am a newbie any longer.

To give you all some background information. I have a fully cycled 120 ga that is 4'Lx 24"H x 22"D tank. I have a tidepool filtration system and "something" 7 pump. After I got the water in and reef crystals all set I added 2 bags of live sand and a week later 75LBs of live rock. An aside here, I still am surprised how easily that tank ate the rocks up. I am seriously considering another 50 lbs but will do that a bit later. I cycled it with 4 green cromis and they are doing well. I added two fire fish today and a couple of candy shrimp (I tried 2 cleaners but that didn't work - see my other post).

What I would like to do is develop a good combination tank with some highly colored fish and corals with assorted crusties and other animals. What I am pondering now though is the order in which to build this system up and which order to add the animals.

Any suggestions on species and the order in which I should add them? I had planned on adding several varieties of fish along with some crabs, shrimps then move onto star fish and corals and anemoes. This tank is in the living room so its on display to everyone and I would like it not only to be colorful, but quite active in the habitat with something going on besides the fish swimming.

Should I add the additional rock now? Or wait until the corals and such are added? I guess this is the biggest question I have right now. I am not sure that moving rock and adding new rock is a good idea once I have a number of fish and stuff in there. How about adding regular (and cheaper) base rock and building on top of that with the live rock I have?

I know its a large order here but some direction and ideas would be appreciated.

Ohh almost forgot.. I will be adding 4ft Halmiton Metal Halide lights next weekend.

[ 04-29-2001: Message edited by: DaveJ ]
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Old 04-29-2001, 05:21 AM   #2
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Hi Dave,
Welcome to The Reef Tank!
The most critical thing you can do for your tank at this time is to get your rock, sandbed and water quality in order; be patient; do lots of reading, and let they system stabilize before adding any more animals, with the exception of a variety of snails to help with algae and detritus control. Patience is a key at this time.
An excellent book is The Conscientious Marine Aquarist, by Robert Fenner. Another is Natural Reef Aquariums, by John Tullock. I highly recommend getting one or both of these books and study them thoroughly before continuing. You will want to add to your library as you go to include one of the encyclopedic works, such as The Reef Aquarium, Vols. I&II, or The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium. There are several other good books out there for fish and corals but we can talk about those later.

Building a saltwater reef system is vastly different from freshwater tanks. An example is the acclimation process you experienced and which was discussed in your earlier post. It will take at least a year for a reef system to become mature and stabile. Some say a year and a half. In any event, it is a slow process and patience is required. There is a saying that "nothing good happens in a hurry in a reef tank."
Here are some good websites with info to supplement your books, remembering that there can be differing opinions and you need to read as much as possible and ask questions here so that you can then make your own good choices: http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webri...g=reeffaq;list http://www.hobbyschool.com/reef/ http://www.reefkeepers.org/faq/cache/33.html http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog...ek_090698.html http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish/li...=&RecordNo=166
And, of course, search the previous posts and archives here on TRT and ask questions.

After reading the books, my recommendation at this time is to go ahead and add the additional 50# rock; get your aquascaping where you want it; increase your sand bed to a minimum of 4"; preferably 5~6"; get a protein skimmer and a Reverse Osmosis/Deionizer (RO/DI) to process water for your tank.
Caveat: Addition of large quantities of even fully cured live rock can trigger another cycle. Rearranging the rocks and adding sand will also cause disturbance in the tank that can stress the fish and inverts you already have. If you add cheaper, base rock, it would be better to have this as your base structure with the better looking quality stuff on top. It also be best if you can remove your fish and inverts to a quarantine tank or large rubbermaid containers until the expected new cycle from the live rock is over. Remember that a quarantine tank must also be cycled and animals acclimated to the Q tank as well. You can minimize the impact of the new rock on the tank by putting the new rock in rubbermaid tubs with heat and circulation for 2-3 weeks before adding them to the tank. Do water changes and test for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates just as you would for cycling a new tank.

Metal Halide lighting is really not important at this time. Save the bulbs until you are ready to add corals that need this intense lighting. You do need light but just not the $$$ halides at this time.

You can expect a series of algae blooms as the tank matures and this is where good water quality and avoiding adding more animals, especially corals, is important until you are through the worst of this phase.

A basic schedule for a new tank would be:
1) Tank setup with LR/LS, completing the cycling process;
2) Add clean up crew of snails, etc.;
3) Slowly add any desired fish, one or two at a time 2-3 months after cycle is complete;
4) Begin adding corals, again slowly and incrementally, after tank has been cycled 5-6 months.
I understand that this is a very conservative schedule and many, (if not most ) cannot resist the temptation to rush things a bit, but reef development is a slow and steady process. This "waiting period" is also time to do the study and reading necessary to assure long term success.

You have the beginnings of a great reef but, as Doug says: "Its cheaper to do it right the first time."
Dick

[ 04-29-2001: Message edited by: FishDaddy ]
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Old 04-29-2001, 11:36 AM   #3
Blake
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I want to reply about the idea of aquascaping. I have a 46gal bow with about 60lb of rock. The tank looks full because of my use of a PVC frame under my live rock. Here is a web site that shows a PVC frame during construction, and use in a tank.
http://www.shadetree.homestead.com/equipment.html

There are a few benefits to using a PVC frame
1. It’s cheap. PVC and a few 90 degree elbows are dollars
2. Because the rocks are not sitting on the sand bed, compression of the sand bed does not occur.
3. Increased surface area of your deep sand bed (again because the rocks are not sitting directly on the sand)
4. Use of less rock to achieve the appearance of a huge mound of rock.
5. My Tang likes the little cave he has behind the rock.

(Note: #5 is extremely important)

I agree with FishDaddy. Take your time and be patient. There is one point that I cannot stress enough-the use of a quarantine tank. I have lost an angel and two clowns to ick because I did not quarantine them for the proper time. So, be patient, it really does pay off in the long run (you spend less on new livestock, )

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Old 04-29-2001, 01:03 PM   #4
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http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog...ek_090698.html http://www.reefkeepers.org/faq/cache/33.html

[ 04-29-2001: Message edited by: Doug1 ]
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Old 04-30-2001, 12:31 AM   #5
DaveJ
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Lets start with the structure.

I think I like the idea of the combination of PVC and base rock. I know that structure is probably all in taste but are there any general rules when setting up the rock beds? Right now the rocks are setup in a wing pattern with a rock structure jutting on in the middle. Kinda like an upside-down W. They go to a height of about 16 inches with passages through the rocks and plenty of crevices etc. If I put more volume of rock in there some of that will disappear. That is where the combination comes in. What do you all think of building a pile on one side with gradual slope to the other side with some caves and crevices along the way? I can build the pile up with base rock or pvc and a layer of live rock on top and the choicer pieces of rock on the gradual slope. I would also like to build display zones in there as well. The larger pile will be ideal for corals and such, but I what about the idea of display zones for anemoes with clowns etc? Now I know the anemoes and such will move around unitl they find a comfortable place (even the glass itself as mentioned in one post). How can I plan ahead with circulation and such to provide these zones so when I place them in there, they will want to stay where placed.

You mentioned 4" or so of sand base. I asked about this when getting things ready to setup and was told that 1/4 inch or an 1" was plenty. That is a pretty big discrepency so some information on why that would be recommended would be welcome.
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Old 04-30-2001, 10:22 AM   #6
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Hi Dave and welcome. It sounds to me like the LFS you go to isn't very current on trends or sound advice (i.e. acclimating inverts, sand bed, etc.) Do yourself a favor and look into the books that Dick mentioned. Also, read through as many old posts here and other bulletin boards as you can. You will get a better feel of what equipment is recommended, stocking levels, hard to keep animals, etc. Also check out the archives on the main forum page. There's lots of good info there! It is important to have a solid base of knowledge about the hobby. That way, when someone says its ok to put a naso, purple, and yellow tang in your tank, you will know that it is not.

As far as the rock goes. I would set-up a rubbermaid home for your current inhabitants with some rock, airstone and heater, and increase your sand bed to the recommended 4-6 inches and gradually add more live rock to the tank as well. If you do this now while you just have a small amount of livestock it would be easier. BTW, what are candy shrimp?? If you do set-up a rubbermaid container use the saltwater from your tank to fill it. Then do small water changes to keep ammonia from building up. Oh, and don't feed the fish for a couple of days (or feed very lightly) while in the containers.

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Old 05-01-2001, 12:14 AM   #7
DaveJ
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I think they are also known as Peppermint Shrimp. Sounds like Prince uh.. introducing Candy Shrimp, formerly known as Peppermint Shrimp.. or some such. Looks like I have a little project this weekend. Do you all think a couple of days is enough for the rock and sand to settle before adding the fish back in or do you think I should and cycle a quarantine tank and just put them in there while I redo it?
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