The Reef Tank banner

Modification of sump to incorporate refugium?

2K views 9 replies 2 participants last post by  OneDummHikk 
#1 ·
I have an amiracle sump (not sure of the model number), that only has two chambers and I want to modify it to a three chamber unit to incorporate a refugium. The dimensions of the tank are as follows: 24" long, 10" wide, 14" tall. The sump is divided by a wall that starts at the top and ends about 2" from the bottom of the tank, in the middle of the tank, giving 2 12" chambers. Beside this wall is a sponge and piece of egg crate that is approx 4" tall (to hold the sponge?).

Now to my questions:

(1) If I use the first 12" chamber for the overflow to drain into w/ the skimmer in this section, will the skimmer be able to do it's job effectively enough since some of the water is gonna get bypassed by going under the wall? Also, could I put live rock in this chamber, just to have more filtration?

(2) Can I remove the sponge and place a baffle and make a refugium here? Without the sponge this 2nd chamber will be approx. 9"L x 10"W x 9"T, (w/ the sponge-- it'd by 3" shorter) would this be a large enough area to do a refugium for a 55g tank? Or would it not be enough to waste the time? Also, what would be the best method (if there is one) to keep the DSB from going under the wall and back into the skimmer chamber. Could I put a something where the egg crate is now and leave the rest of it open? This would give a retaining wall for the DSB of about 4 inches and another 5" for the LR rubble and macro algae.

The third chamber would be for the return pump and heater.

What does everyone think? Will it work or just be a waste of time and money?

I know this is a LONG question, but any help would be greatly appreciated!!
 
See less See more
#2 ·
I have an amiracle sump (not sure of the model number), that only has two chambers and I want to modify it to a three chamber unit to incorporate a refugium. The dimensions of the tank are as follows: 24" long, 10" wide, 14" tall. The sump is divided by a wall that starts at the top and ends about 2" from the bottom of the tank, in the middle of the tank, giving 2 12" chambers. Beside this wall is a sponge and piece of egg crate that is approx 4" tall (to hold the sponge?).

Now to my questions:

(1) If I use the first 12" chamber for the overflow to drain into w/ the skimmer in this section, will the skimmer be able to do it's job effectively enough since some of the water is gonna get bypassed by going under the wall? Also, could I put live rock in this chamber, just to have more filtration?
There isn't going to be anymore water that gets "missed" there than it is if it were on the other side of the baffles. Some of the water through the sump will always miss the skimmer. As for adding live rock, if you have room, add it.

(2) Can I remove the sponge and place a baffle and make a refugium here? Without the sponge this 2nd chamber will be approx. 9"L x 10"W x 9"T, (w/ the sponge-- it'd by 3" shorter) would this be a large enough area to do a refugium for a 55g tank? Or would it not be enough to waste the time? Also, what would be the best method (if there is one) to keep the DSB from going under the wall and back into the skimmer chamber. Could I put a something where the egg crate is now and leave the rest of it open? This would give a retaining wall for the DSB of about 4 inches and another 5" for the LR rubble and macro algae.
What holds your egg crate in place now? Whatever holds it in place could possibly hold a baffle in place, just replace it with a solid piece of acrylic/glass and make the water flow over the top of it instead of under or through it. With the DSB, you could get about an inch or two from the existing wall and place a baffle the water height you need for your skimmer, plus an inch for adjustments. It would become a bubble trap of sorts and also hold the DSB in place. Then the second baffle you add would containe the DSB on the other side, water would flow over it into the third chamber where the return pump would return it back to the tank.



The black would be existing, the blue and red are new additions. The blue would have to be taller than the red so that the flow goes the right way. The far left side would be LR/Skimmer. Between the red and blue would be DSB and to the right of the red would be the heater and return pump.
 
#3 ·
I have to decided to either A) cut out the middle baffle (that separates the sump into 2 equal parts and then relocate it to make the skimmer side smaller, thus enlarging the fuge part and adding baffles where needed or B) start from scratch with an empty tank and design my own. I finally got down on the floor to measure the empty space in the stand and can put something about bigger.... I have an area of 31.5L X 30W X 14 tall to work with.

The egg crate that holds the sponge in place now is held by acrylic tabs, but, they are not in a good place to use as a baffle as that would not really enlarge the area for the fuge. My original idea was to put a baffle, well actually a wall just to hold the DSB, and have the remaining area open above that wall for the macro algae, but still would leave such a small area for the fuge. Talked to LFS today and was told that there is no real minimum size area needed for the skimmer, so will move the center divider to make it smaller and thus the fuge larger. Hope this all makes some kind of sense?
 
#4 ·
I have to decided to either A) cut out the middle baffle (that separates the sump into 2 equal parts and then relocate it to make the skimmer side smaller, thus enlarging the fuge part and adding baffles where needed or B) start from scratch with an empty tank and design my own. I finally got down on the floor to measure the empty space in the stand and can put something about bigger.... I have an area of 31.5L X 30W X 14 tall to work with.
If you are going to try to rebuild your current sump to get what you want, then get a bigger sump/tank to do what you want it to do. In the long run, I think you would be happier with designing your own because you get what you want.

The egg crate that holds the sponge in place now is held by acrylic tabs, but, they are not in a good place to use as a baffle as that would not really enlarge the area for the fuge. My original idea was to put a baffle, well actually a wall just to hold the DSB, and have the remaining area open above that wall for the macro algae, but still would leave such a small area for the fuge. Talked to LFS today and was told that there is no real minimum size area needed for the skimmer, so will move the center divider to make it smaller and thus the fuge larger. Hope this all makes some kind of sense?
It does make sense. My wet/dry has the same tabs but it has an acrylic divider piece instead of the egg crate. I thought yours would have the tabs but wanted to ask to make sure. The size for the skimmer is dictated by the footprint of the skimmer itself. More important with the skimmer is water level in the sump.
 
#5 ·
Onedummhikk, thanks for the advice. I have decided to make one myself. One more question: Would it weaken the glass to much to cut out an area in the side just to hang the skimmer on? The height of the skimmer dictates the height of my tank, but if I could cut the glass and hang the skimmer lower, I could have a taller tank. Ok, so two more questions: I didn't really pay any attention in science class so forgive me, but wouldn't the height of the baffles for the refugium dictate the water level? If for instance the first baffle was top down w/ an inch or so gap at the bottom and the second baffle was from bottom to top, say 14" tall, wouldn't the level in the refugium be 14" but the level in the skimmer section be whatever I set it at by amount of water put into the system, lets say at 9"? I know that was long and drawn out, but maybe you can make heads or tails out of it....
 
#6 ·
Onedummhikk, thanks for the advice. I have decided to make one myself. One more question: Would it weaken the glass to much to cut out an area in the side just to hang the skimmer on?
Absolutely. The stress on the glass would be the greatest at the corners of your cut. And I promise you, if you cut a section of the glass out, it will break from the corners of the cut.

The height of the skimmer dictates the height of my tank, but if I could cut the glass and hang the skimmer lower, I could have a taller tank.
The water level couldn't be any higher with a taller tank though. If your skimmer dictates a height of the tank wall because of space in the stand, then the water level is decided for you. It can't be any higher than that or the water would flow backwards or you would have to pump it over a baffle to get it through the sump.

How tall is your skimmer? You said you have 14 inches high to work with in the stand.

Ok, so two more questions: I didn't really pay any attention in science class so forgive me, but wouldn't the height of the baffles for the refugium dictate the water level? If for instance the first baffle was top down w/ an inch or so gap at the bottom and the second baffle was from bottom to top, say 14" tall, wouldn't the level in the refugium be 14" but the level in the skimmer section be whatever I set it at by amount of water put into the system, lets say at 9"? I know that was long and drawn out, but maybe you can make heads or tails out of it....
Yes, the baffle heights dictate the water level. In the picture I posted, the water level anywhere in the sump to the left of the blue line will be the height of that blue line. The water level between the blue and red line is dictated by the red line height. The water level to the right side of the red line is dictated by you. I re-did that picture twice as big so it is easier to see it.
 
#7 ·
I don't know why I was thinking that the last baffle would dictate the height of the water level just in the refugium section, but the skimmer could be something less. Problem w/ being a virgo, over analyzing everything. Problem w/ not paying attention in school, well, that is obvious.... lol

With the way that the skimmer hangs on the side of the sump, the sump tank can be no more than 14" tall. That height plus the extra 6 -8" of the skimmer over the level of the sump, just gives enough room to unscrew the cup to dump it out.

But, I still can go wider and longer, so I think that I will make my own...
 
#8 ·
I don't know why I was thinking that the last baffle would dictate the height of the water level just in the refugium section, but the skimmer could be something less. Problem w/ being a virgo, over analyzing everything. Problem w/ not paying attention in school, well, that is obvious.... lol
If the refugium section is in the center, then the last baffle does indeed control the level in the refugium and that is the only place it controls the water level.

With the way that the skimmer hangs on the side of the sump, the sump tank can be no more than 14" tall. That height plus the extra 6 -8" of the skimmer over the level of the sump, just gives enough room to unscrew the cup to dump it out.

But, I still can go wider and longer, so I think that I will make my own...
It depends on where in that drawing you are putting the skimmer. The water level will get lower in that drawing as you go to the right. If your skimmer was on the far right hand side, the water level would be lower but I don't know if that is the best place for the skimmer or not. It is a pre-refugium/post-refugium thing where I dont know which place would be the best. Somebody else will have to educate us both.
 
#9 ·
What I am planning is: (and I have yet to find a tank this exact size, so I am gonna have to modify my numbers some, but for the sake of argument)

30"L X 30W X 14"T tank, 1st section from the left, 7" X 30" X 14" w/ overflow from tank, skimmer and live rock (9" level of water--seems to be the going rate for most skimmers ????)---then baffles, 1" apart. Middle section--14" X 30" X 14" (also w/ 9" of water, unless I can make this section deeper w/ a taller a baffle ????), 2 more baffles, 1" apart. Last section, same size as first w/ the return pump and heater. Minus the width of the glass the material is: let's just say, 1/4" x 4 baffles = 1" then the actual size of each section will be reduced by 1/3".

Now, if I must, I could place the skimmer on a support, raising it to get the desired 8-9" desired depth, but would have to take it off the support every time to remove the discharge cup. Also, that is only gonna give me maybe 4" of extra depth of water anyway. Also have to consider overflow if power loss.

I like to think of myself as a DIY'er, but I am beginning to rethink this. But, hey, I did manage to get the RO/DI unit installed yesterday w/o having to call a plumber..... LOL
 
#10 ·
What I am planning is: (and I have yet to find a tank this exact size, so I am gonna have to modify my numbers some, but for the sake of argument)

30"L X 30W X 14"T tank, 1st section from the left, 7" X 30" X 14" w/ overflow from tank, skimmer and live rock (9" level of water--seems to be the going rate for most skimmers ????)---then baffles, 1" apart.
Make it 10" then and use a skimmer lift. Will give you that 1" of water to be able to tinker with the water level to make it work best with your skimmer.

I don't think you will have much luck finding an off-the-shelf tank that size. Either build a custom one from glass or acrylic. Just don't forget the size of the doors on your stand (if you have them) so that you can potentially get the sump out of the stand if you ever have problems with it.

Middle section--14" X 30" X 14" (also w/ 9" of water, unless I can make this section deeper w/ a taller a baffle ????),
You could do that, but it isn't a good idea. You would have to have a pump to pump the water from section 1 to section 2. And if any pump in the sump went out, the other would either overflow or run dry. Double-whammy. If you have the same water level in two side-by-side sections, then the only purpose of the divider is?

2 more baffles, 1" apart. Last section, same size as first w/ the return pump and heater. Minus the width of the glass the material is: let's just say, 1/4" x 4 baffles = 1" then the actual size of each section will be reduced by 1/3".

Now, if I must, I could place the skimmer on a support, raising it to get the desired 8-9" desired depth, but would have to take it off the support every time to remove the discharge cup. Also, that is only gonna give me maybe 4" of extra depth of water anyway. Also have to consider overflow if power loss.

I like to think of myself as a DIY'er, but I am beginning to rethink this. But, hey, I did manage to get the RO/DI unit installed yesterday w/o having to call a plumber..... LOL
I have no choice but to think of myself as a DIY'er and about half the DIY ideas I have are probably doomed to failure but I will try them anyway.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top