Mixing Water

[bosscrab]

I got some questions on exactly how you do wc to cause a less stress as possible.
Here is how I do mine please if you do something different:

1. Fill up trash can about 15g
2. Add PH
3. Add salt till its 1.025
4. Add heater
Here is what I'm not sure about but never had any problems:
5. Add superbuffer(Kent). I always add enough for total volume of water (90g)
6. Add Reef complete(Seachem) again enough for 90g per mfg. recommended dosage.
7. Add calcium (Seachem) again I dose for 90g per instructions.
8. let sit overnight
9. siphon out water of main, fill up sump when it fills I cut the pump back on.

So am I suppose to just dose additives for the 15g? Then add my weekly additives at a different time?

Is there anything else I should dose or different brand gives better results?

Sorry if I lost or confused anyone.

[Kimberfish]

I run RODI water into my cans add salt to=1.025 add superbuffer. Add to tank when temp is within 1-2 degrees of main tank. I dont' add any elements to my wc water

[Canuck]

The only additives I add to my water is the Seachem Prime to help balance out the minerals and amonia. With the corals now in there we have been adding a small amount of Stability.
When you are letting your water sit overnight are you keeping a current going to ensure that the water is remaining oxygenated and salt isn't settling at the bottom?
Other than that sounds pretty good.
It depends on what your starting water is for what minerals you have in it. I don't tend to add anything to my water except for what I mentioned above. I've been pretty much been led against that.

[tellycoleman]

Old school people say dont add anything you cant test.
I just mix water and let it sit with Powerhead and heater.
then splash into tank.
What kinda salt do you use?
Most salt produces a stablle quality of water if used with ro/di. What does supperbuffer and reef complete do? More importantly whats in it?
Are you testing for calcium and alk?
DO you have corals?
If you dont then dont worry about it.
If you do have corals and you are dosing 2 part that is something thats done every day not just at waterchange
I hear that reef crystals have a higher quantity of calcium

[DarthOcellaris]

Telly has some good questions.

Otherwise, overall, your method is fine...I wouldnt worry about the Reef Complete though. I would only add that to the main tank directly. Adjusting your calcium and alk in the storage container is a good idea though.....just be sure to do those on separate days so you don't precipitate your calcium.

Best thing to do is have the makeup water sit about one day so it settles in and is ready

[bosscrab]

Thanks guys. So its better to get the ph and calcium right in the new water, Then it is to adjust for the whole system in the bucket.

[bosscrab]

Telly I only keep softies and LPS and don't have a high need for 2 part and seem to do fine w/the reef complete. I use IO salt and it has a low CA level so it needs some extra calcium.
The buffer is for alk and maintains proper ph.

[tellycoleman]

I would check you calcium first before adding anything. Most of the time it should be good in newly mixed saltwater.

Your PH will be off regardless
first of all your storage container is in the dark. 2nd it may not be at the same temp as the display tank. 3rd if you check your PH right when you mix it and then check it 24 hours later it will be different.

What size display tank are you talking about for this water change?
It may be more inportant in a nano cube than lets say a 100g
Just remember what do you think your PH is when you top off with fresh water?
its not 8.2 well mine isnt. yet we still dump it in our tanks.
I am just old school the less you add the better
if you top off with kalk water you may not have to add anything once levels are reached. Corals do better in a constant calcium ph range rather than a fluctuating.
Kalk water top off also helps maintain PH.
this may also be a solution to consider
But hey im not nocking it. if its working good for you tank cool

[DarthOcellaris]

Telly is right about the ph. As long as it's close, you needn't worry. You can get the temp, salinity, alk to match the display tank though and IMO, that's more important.

The way I do it is raise the ca and alk to 450ppm/4meq respectively in my makeup water, get it to 78 degrees F and 1.026. I have corals so it's important to me to have all my levels where I want them beforehand

[wannareef]

i guess ive been doing this the easy way compared to all of you i just put ro/di water in a container mix with salt run power heads get the heat and salinity right drain off old dump in new

[tdwyatt]

Originally Posted by DarthOcellaris

The way I do it is raise the Ca and alk to 450ppm/4meq respectively in my makeup (water change???) water, get it to 78 degrees F and 1.026. I have corals so it's important to me to have all my levels where I want them beforehand

Assuming that we're talking about water change water rather than makeup water (which most think of as another name for top-off water to "make up" the missing evaporative losses), then this is absolutely the way to do it. In this manner, you add both calcium and alk in equimolar amounts to prevent either of them from shifting the balance in the supersaturated state of high calcium/buffer systems. Personally, if you're doing water changes, you should be using a calcium & alk supplement that doesn't add extra sodium and chloride as two part additives like super-buffer, sodium bicarbonate, calcium chloride, etc do. Using a saturated solution of kalkwasser to bring up values of calcium AND alkalinity is ideal, no extra stuff to skew the water column's final proportionality. By kalking up the mix prior to addition to the system, you don't dilute your system's hermatypic supplement values down when using water changes that are of lower concentration for calcium and alkalinity. In addition, you need to be cautious when adding buffer (or kalk) to your new water change water: too much (or especially with kalkwasser if added to quickly without good distribution) and both calcium and alk will precipitate out in a snow of flocculates.

IF your system does not need tons of calcium (as in multiple clams of good size or a reef top biotope of "SPS" stony corals), then there really is no need to do any more than make the ASW, match temp and pH (which good salt will do within 24 hours by itself when mixed with RO/DI and circulated with a powerhead).

Always remember, measure your water first, then slowly add and dissolve the salt.


HTH

[DarthOcellaris]

good point about adding the salt to the water and not water to salt...

The calcium will precipitate out if you add water to salt ( or so I have read )

[bosscrab]

Originally Posted by tdwyatt

Personally, if you're doing water changes, you should be using a calcium & alk supplement that doesn't add extra sodium and chloride as two part additives like super-buffer, sodium bicarbonate, calcium chloride, etc do. Using a saturated solution of kalkwasser to bring up values of calcium AND alkalinity is ideal, no extra stuff to skew the water column's final proportionality. By kalking up the mix prior to addition to the system, you don't dilute your system's hermatypic supplement values down when using water changes that are of lower concentration for calcium and alkalinity. In addition, you need to be cautious when adding buffer (or kalk) to your new water change water: too much (or especially with kalkwasser if added to quickly without good distribution) and both calcium and alk will precipitate out in a snow of flocculates.

IF your system does not need tons of calcium (as in multiple clams of good size or a reef top biotope of "SPS" stony corals), then there really is no need to do any more than make the ASW, match temp and pH (which good salt will do within 24 hours by itself when mixed with RO/DI and circulated with a powerhead).



HTH

Thanks Tom,
so to get this right: Replace the superbuffer w/kalk(pickling lime) and this will put my alk in the right place too?

How much pickling lime do I add per gallon?

[tdwyatt]

Originally Posted by bosscrab

Thanks Tom,
so to get this right: Replace the superbuffer w/kalk(pickling lime) and this will put my alk in the right place too?

Yes, remember that carbonic acid in the presence of a proton acceptor and at high pH wiill convert quickly to HCO3- in equimolar amounts with the mount of calcium present (approximately),

How much pickling lime do I add per gallon?

Due to small differences in your local starting water re: pCO2 from the tap (which the RO/DI will not remove), you need to test your ASW made using your fave salt mix and RO/DI made from your your local water and plug the numbers (volume, alk and Ca++ value) into one of the reef calculators to determine how much kalkwasser to drip into the fresh SW. See http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chemcalc.html for the calculator, I can tell you that using RO/DI MADE FROM UPSTATE SC WATER MAINS WATERS, my usual dose for 40 gallon of IO that has been stirring for at least 6 hours is a little less than 2 gallons plus 2 quarts, and this volume of kalkwasser liquid requires that I increase the salinity after a slow drip to bring S back to 35 PPT (SG = 1.026). Your alk will be between 11 and 12 initially, and Ca++ will be between 400 and 425 PPM. VERY IMPORTANT: without slow addition, the pH jumps through the roof and this may drop your solubility of CaCO3 tremendously (resulting in a snow out), so it is MANDATORY that you slowly drip the kalk into the water, I take about 4 or 5 hours (I have an old IO bucket that I use that has a hole punched in the bottom (Carefully use a nail) that take the better part of 4 and one-half hours to drip 2 and one-half US Gal into the swirling ASW solution. After the solution drips in, I add salt SLOWLY (about one and ONE-fourth CUPS IO) until the S=35 again (allow each addition of salt to completely dissolve before adding more). I keep a MaG 12 and a Ebo-Jager running in the bottom of the mixing barrel to keep a swirl going the entire time I am making ASW. It is better to start with full-strength ASW and let the kalk dilute it out, then bring it back to full-strength than to start out with hypersaline ASW and try diluting it back to the right strength with the kalkwasser (this resulted in snow-outs at some point in the dilution process in my experience),

As an aside, I have had this method to result in alk values as high at 13 or 14 after kalk addition in the past, but had attributed this to the issues over the last year with the Salifert alk test kits, so test your alk values and pH (both before and after adding the kalkwasser solution to the ASW) before dumping it into the tank with live critters. I will try posting some values for this method after a few more trials, I have not measured the alk values in a while after mixing (one of those "I've done it so many times, why should I check it now?" issues... )


Now WHERE is that last good Alk test kit I had...

[DarthOcellaris]

Originally Posted by bosscrab

How much pickling lime do I add per gallon?

short answer: start with 1 teaspoon per gallon of rodi water and work up to 2 teaspoons.