mandarin dragonette dilemma

[schmidt01]

I need your expertise again folks... I know my tank is too young to have developed a sufficient supply of pods to support a mandarin dragonette. I have seen pods in the tank at night before, but I'm sure the population is not big enough to keep one of these fish alive for long so I never considered getting one even though I think they're the most beautiful fish available. However, my husband han't been that interested in the tank until he saw a mandarin online and he really wants to get one. I'd really like for him to get involved with my hobby and I think caring for the mandarin would get him hooked (as long as we were successful at keeping it of course), but I don't want an innocent fish to die in the process!
My husband and I read through old threads on how to build breeding areas in the tank for pods with piles of rubble rock. He got so excited about setting everything up for the mandarin and it was so nice to see him so interested in the tank for a change!
If we built breeding areas and stocked the tank with pods, do you think a mandarin would do ok in my tank? Right now I only have a clownfish, LMB, and a green chromi and they're all doing great. I have a 46 gallon tank with about 50-60 lbs of live rock in it.
What do you think? Would I be getting in over my head at this point? I'm willing to go the extra mile to make sure he gets the food he needs. Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated!

[Fly Guy]

if you let your tank get absolutely filthy and overrun with nuisance algae it could be ok. Other than that you will have to breed pods which can be done, but its seriousl ynot soemthing you want to deal with at this point. just keep on keeping on and add him when you have an appropriate size tank that can support the thing

jmo

[schmidt01]

What size tank would you recommend? Maybe I can finally convince my husband to let me upgrade!

[hng]

This is a really tough question because there are no hard set rules. The biggest problem is that you're dealing with a relatively young system and that alone makes it hard for you to have a stable pod population. Everyone seems to have pods crawling all over the place when you first start off a system but wait a few months and you actually have to go looking for pods to find them. Like Fly Guy said, you have to keep the tank kinda heavily fed to keep up the pod population too, and that's extra tough on a young system as well. What you have been reading about are generally called refugiums, and one can be added to your system. I think that what you want to do probably could be done with what you have but would probably be such a pain in the rear that it wouldn't be fun after a while. A good sized upgrade would a 90 gallon tank which I would consider the minimum for a mandarin. Maybe you can get your husband hooked on a different fish?

[DarthOcellaris]

I think you're doing great research work!

[Fly Guy]

it depends on how dirty your tank is and if you employ any other siginfigant pod predators.

a super clean 120 with no other pod predators isnt big enough. a dirty 75 is.

If youve never witnessed it you cannot imagine how many pods these things eat to keep healthy. The first mandarin I ever had I had in a established 80 gallon that was kinda clean...but not really. I had the delusion that I had enough pods to keep two at the time. then I lost him to a powerhead i forgot to put the screen back on. within a few weeks and seeing how many pods that tank had I realized just how worng I ws thinking I could have kept two. there was no way.

[wolfie]

If you are still set on getting an Mandarin than DO NOT ORDER from the online store. Go to your LFS and make sure you SEE it eat frozen food. Ask the store keep to feed it in front of you. DO NOT buy it if it does not eat.

MAKE sure the Mandarin EAT frozen food to ensure it long term health.

[schmidt01]

Originally Posted by DarthOcellaris

I think you're doing great research work!

Thanks! I've really learned a lot from you guys... I read every new post on this forum every day! It's scary to think of how many mistakes I would have made already if I never found this forum!

[schmidt01]

Originally Posted by hng

This is a really tough question because there are no hard set rules. The biggest problem is that you're dealing with a relatively young system and that alone makes it hard for you to have a stable pod population. Everyone seems to have pods crawling all over the place when you first start off a system but wait a few months and you actually have to go looking for pods to find them. Like Fly Guy said, you have to keep the tank kinda heavily fed to keep up the pod population too, and that's extra tough on a young system as well. What you have been reading about are generally called refugiums, and one can be added to your system. I think that what you want to do probably could be done with what you have but would probably be such a pain in the rear that it wouldn't be fun after a while. A good sized upgrade would a 90 gallon tank which I would consider the minimum for a mandarin. Maybe you can get your husband hooked on a different fish?

I've spent the last hour reading up on pod breeding online and you're right... it probably is too much of a pain to keep up with in the long run. If it's not fun, my husband will end up losing interest anyway (sometimes I swear he's just an overgrown kid! And I mean that in a loving way! ) If I can find one that will eat prepared food, do you think it would be ok? I know it's rare for a mandarin to do that, but if they will eat prepared food will that give it the nutrients it needs to stay healthy, or do they really just need to eat pods? I'm seeing conflicting information on this online.
If the mandarin isn't going to work out, is there another interesting fish I can try to get my husband interested in?

[schmidt01]

Originally Posted by wolfie

If you are still set on getting an Mandarin than DO NOT ORDER from the online store. Go to your LFS and make sure you SEE it eat frozen food. Ask the store keep to feed it in front of you. DO NOT buy it if it does not eat.

MAKE sure the Mandarin EAT frozen food to ensure it long term health.

I can't bring myself to order anything online yet... the shipping costs just irk me too much! I live close to a huge fish store, so usually I can get what I'm looking for there... although I've gotten 2 corals from there that have died within days (had I don't more research I would have known they weren't healthy when I got them... I've finally learned my lesson now!), so maybe I'll have to get over the shipping cost issue soon...

I'm going to the fish store tomorrow to get some new powerheads (trying to prevent another fish from getting its nose stuck in there) so I'll ask them what their mandarins are eating. If they eat frozen foods I'll definitely ask them to show me. Do you think a diet of frozen food will be sufficient for a mandarin over the long term?

[wyliecoyote]

show your husband some fairy wrasses. some of them look pretty cool and have a lot of personality. i have to admit that i have been thinking about adding a mandarin to my tank, but they are almost always doomed. i had one that i used to hatch brine shrimp for a couple of times a week (your frogspawn will like this too). it did ok for a while. it was in a 90 gallon with about 250 pounds of live rock and a heavy fish load. i fed brine shrimp twice a day, flake food a few times a week. i skimmed a couple of days a week. the tank was a bit dirty and had been established for over a year and still didn't support a mandarin that ate frozen food and the fresh hatched brine. the one thing i will say is that the mandarin is probably doomed in whatever tank it goes to. if you are willing to take the extra effort to feed it it may be better off in your tank.

[schmidt01]

Originally Posted by Fly Guy

it depends on how dirty your tank is and if you employ any other siginfigant pod predators.

a super clean 120 with no other pod predators isnt big enough. a dirty 75 is.

If youve never witnessed it you cannot imagine how many pods these things eat to keep healthy. The first mandarin I ever had I had in a established 80 gallon that was kinda clean...but not really. I had the delusion that I had enough pods to keep two at the time. then I lost him to a powerhead i forgot to put the screen back on. within a few weeks and seeing how many pods that tank had I realized just how worng I ws thinking I could have kept two. there was no way.

My tank is pretty clean (at least I think it is!). I don't have any other pod preditors that I'm aware of, but I haven't seen a ton of pods or anything so I'm sure a mandarin wouldn't live long in my tank as it is now. If they graze on pods all day I can only imagine how quickly they can wipe out a pod population!

[schmidt01]

Originally Posted by wyliecoyote

show your husband some fairy wrasses. some of them look pretty cool and have a lot of personality. i have to admit that i have been thinking about adding a mandarin to my tank, but they are almost always doomed. i had one that i used to hatch brine shrimp for a couple of times a week (your frogspawn will like this too). it did ok for a while. it was in a 90 gallon with about 250 pounds of live rock and a heavy fish load. i fed brine shrimp twice a day, flake food a few times a week. i skimmed a couple of days a week. the tank was a bit dirty and had been established for over a year and still didn't support a mandarin that ate frozen food and the fresh hatched brine. the one thing i will say is that the mandarin is probably doomed in whatever tank it goes to. if you are willing to take the extra effort to feed it it may be better off in your tank.

Wow! If you couldn't keep one under those conditions I'm sure I'd end up killing one. You've sloved my dilemma... I've got to get the husband to like something else! Fairy wrasses are very cool, but I've never seen them at any of the fish stores near me. Maybe I can special order one. I'll look into that.
The more I think about the mandarin the more it irks me that stores sell them as much as they do. I doubt most people that get them are really willing to do what's necessary to feed them (if they even know that they have a special diet) and its so sad to think that they end up suffering a slow painful death as a result. Maybe someday when I have a much bigger tank I'll consider it again... until then I'll just have to find something else. Sometimes being a resposible grown-up stinks!

[tag]

i have a 29 gallon tank with about 30 lbs of live rock. i've had a mandarin for about a year and a half. he is doing great. the secret to my success is a hang off the back refugium that supplies a steady stream of pods for him. the refugium holds approx 3-4 gallons and it is full of cheato.

[h2ocrazy]

I have a mandarin in my 75G custom made tank. It is built like a nano with a refugium/sump in the back. I have 4-4.5" of sand and about 150-175 lbs of LR and have 2 hand fulls of chaetomorpha in the sump area(no bioballs just LR rubble). I added the macro algae at least 6 weeks prior to adding a mandarin in order to breed my pod population. Even after 3 weeks of my mandarin (Ollie) being in there I can still see the pods on the walls. I guess having macro algae as a pod breeding ground works. I see my Ollie just floating around eating pods all day. eventually I want to add a larger sump under my tank and just fill it with macro algae in order to mass breed pods. Although it seems what I am doing now is sufficient. As far as the cleanliness of the tank, I only clean the front and I let the rest grow algae and have been running my skimmer 3-4 days on 2-3 days off.