Long term affects of Nitrate?

[aussiereefer82]

G'day guys'

Apart from problem algaes, what are the long term affects of nitrate on fish/inverts/corals?

My mates tank has run at over 30ppm nitrate for 12mths now after neglect, nothing has died and every thing has grown and thrived(it is a 29gal reef), we have tested with several different test kits.

I'm hoping Tom will chime in on this one.

[rockster2599]

Nitrate wont affect most fish and inverts but will have indirect effects on some species. For example tanks with high nitrate levels tend not to have such clean water so the water will have less dissolved oxygen, affecting the health of very active swimming fish like powder blue tangs. Nitrite will also fuel many types of nuisance algea growth, having a smothering effect on certain corals. High nitrates can also mean high phosphates, which prevents some stony corals from putting down calcium carbonate to build skeletons.
Basically the effects of high nitrates will depend on the species you keep (fresh water tanks will run at nitrate levels that make your head spin) but a tank running with high nitrates is more likely to encounter problems.
Rockster

[rockster2599]

Oh I forgot nitrate can cause browning of sps corals due to zoanthellae overgrowth, i.e. less pretty corals.

Rockster

[icebear]

i have to wonder this myself. for three months my nitrates have been way over 80ppm and you'd almost think it would become a wasteland... but things have survived

[rottielover]

I've noticed that my corals are "over browning" because of the nitrate levels.

When my tank hit 80ppm I did a massive (30%) water change, and they dropped to around 60ppm. Since then I've added Seachem's "De*nitrate" product to an empty canister filter I was using as a pump to run my UV, I figured I had the room in there so I added the whole bottle...

Since then (4 days) the nitrate has dropped to ~40ppm but I'm still very unhappy with this...

Right now, I'm planning a "storm" of the rocks with a power head, I've also ordered a set of Tunze Stream pumps and a controller for them to increase the flow in my tank, hoping to get all the detris suspended so that my skimmer/sump can get it out of there (especially since I can't get it all with my siphon hose)...

What are some other ways people are using to get the nitrates in check? I feel as though I'm fighting a loosing battle?

[rockster2599]

Originally Posted by rottielover

What are some other ways people are using to get the nitrates in check? I feel as though I'm fighting a loosing battle?

Do you have a subtrate? Reason I ask is that I recently had a nitrate proble for about 3 months. I put in extra flow, bought a new skimmer, cut my feeding by half (unhappy fishies ), increased my water changes and put in some nitrate absorbing filter media. It was only when I swapped about 50% of my substrate that I managed to get my nitrate back to zero.
Rockster

[rottielover]

I have a little sand in the bottom for the sand sifters (goby and starfish), and I have a few queen chonc's to help stir things up a bit. (By a little sand I mean maybe an average depth of 1 to 2" across the tank....

OH- sorry for the hijack here.. I just thought it applies

[rockster2599]

If it has been in the tank a while, it may be worth considering replacing some of it. Just a suggestion .

Rockster

[Buddy]

aussierreefer82, for F/O tanks, there do happen to be an effect from high nitrate levels for 30 years, a number of researching institutes has done a study with using few city aquariums all over the world at that time. They done the test with sharks and fishes and with the high levels of nitrates they found that a shark not grown to its normal size by as much as 1.5'.

I only wish that they continued that research study least for another 20 years for one could only speculate on if it has any long term effects on the marine species life span.

Buddy ><{{{{">

[rockster2599]

Originally Posted by Buddy

aussierreefer82, for F/O tanks, there do happen to be an effect from high nitrate levels for 30 years, a number of researching institutes has done a study with using few city aquariums all over the world at that time. They done the test with sharks and fishes and with the high levels of nitrates they found that a shark not grown to its normal size by as much as 1.5'.

Would you have a reference for that study?
Sounds interesting.
Rockster

[Buddy]

Would you have a reference for that study?

That study was done more then 15 or if as much for 20 years ago and it wasn`t any article i read on the net , but from a magazine, i believe in remembering that the article took some 12+ pages and im sorry, i can`t remember the name of that magazine for it has been a while. But i never forgot the article nevertheless.
Buddy ><{{{{">

[rockster2599]

No worries, Ill have a search.
Rockster

[rottielover]

Originally Posted by rockster2599

If it has been in the tank a while, it may be worth considering replacing some of it. Just a suggestion .

Rockster

I've thought about it, but the sand in there now is about 6 or 8 months old or so... For right now, I'm going to use a gravel vac (pinched off so I don't suck out the sand, just the nasty's) and try to vac it really good for now (all while trying not to kill any of the fauna in the sand, I lofty goal I admit)...

We'll see how things go, I'm going to run another nitrate test again tonight, to see if I've made any more progress on the removal of the nitrate...

[nigle]

Oi!

Nitrates are a natural end to the 'life' in the tank. Some corals don't fare well with high amounts [probably why I can't keep sps's except for porites], but my tanks are usually over 100 [well with the AP tests, it's so dark red it looks like ketchup. HA!] so it's probably well over 100, but my corals and fish for the last 5 years don't seem to be suffering.

This 'thing' about getting nitrates to 0 is big bug-a-boo with me, maybe with acros the amount can be 'deadly' but lobophyllia thrives on nitrates, it all depends on what it is that you have in the tanks.

Yes rediculously high nitrates is like swimming in acid, and mine have gone down since my 'high' readings, but '0' is IMO is unrealistic. '0' means that there is no 'life' in the tank, I asked Dr. Ron S. at IMAC last year this very same question, about people saying that their nitrates are '0'. He said that the reading were probably very small, but '0', no, that just isn't possible with a 'living' tank.

A reading of 30 or 40 depending on what you have in the tank is not that bad, but don't let anyone with '0' see you typing that.

Cheers!
nigle
!~!

[rottielover]

nigle,

I agree in part with what your saying, but let's take another common substance, ammonia...

There *IS* always *SOME* ammonia in your tank, even after the cycle, because the fish are constantly putting in there, but your biological filter is consuming it, and when you test the water, your test kit will read "0", because it's just not possible to measure what small ammount of ammonia is really in that test tube with the tests we use.

Likewise with nitrate, I agree that extreme nitrate levels generally don't cause major problems, like a high ammount of ammonia or nitrIte would. However, since it's possible to establish a biological filter for nitrate (poor oxegen enviroment bacteria) to consume it, why wouldn't we want to?

I've noticed that even with my levels at 20-80 some of my corals have "browned" (due to the increase in thier symboitic algea).

I know the pure-ists here are going to hate me / but I've ordered some AZ-NO3 (absolute zero nitrate). The product says that it binds to nitrate in the water, and helps your skimmer to pull it out. I figure since my bacterial filter for nitrate isn't quite there just yet, I'm going to help them out a bit by removal of the high load of nitrate (very similar to doing a water change in a cycling tank to lower the ammonia levels back to "safe" to continue the cycle).

In fact, I'm looking at this product in the exact same concept of cycling a new tank, though at this point the ammonia and nitrite filters are established and handling the load, the nitrate reducers are not yet keeping up with the production, so I'm going to help them out. The idea is to "ween" the tank off the nitrate reducing product until it can handle the load itself without the additon of any chemical product.

So getting back to the original topic "long term effects of nitrate", I belive strongly that high nitrate levels encourage algea growth (even the "good" algea living inside our corals, clams, etc.) and because of the excess ammount of algea in the tissues of the corals will cause them to "brown out". I can't remember where I read this, but one author belived that if high nitrate levels were left unchecked (ie way more that 100) and the algea in the tissues of the corals were to keep reproducing, that this will lead to the expulsion of the algea from the coral (bleaching).

Anyway, it's time for me to run another nitrate test tonight, I guess we'll see if Seachem's De*Nitrate product is still working....