lionfish

[Diener311]

Hello, I have a few questions regarding my lionfish. I have had him for about 4 months now, but he got ich about a week and a half ago. I have been trying to treat him with an additive called sano, which is actually just a vitamin that you add to the water. I also was feeding him garlic soaked silversides to no avail. The ich just keeps coming back every time he sheds his skin. His eyes have also been cloudy for about a week. I have tried myacin 2 to treat the cloudy eyes. After that didn't work, I tried copper at half the recomended dosage as a last resort. That even didn't really do anything other than cause his fins to deteriorate, so i put fresh carbon in and did a 50% water change. Last night I tried a freshwater bath, which seemed to remove most of the ich. The problem is he hasn't been eating for 4 days now. Any help or advice would be great.

[beach bum]

WATER QUALITY!!!! Lions are a very hardy bunch and if you have one that got ich after being established I would suspect a drop in water quality. Run the battery of tests and see what comes up. How often and how much water do you change? Running a skimmer? NitrAtes? Ph? etc...

I am a fan of hyposalinity for ich treatment in FO tanks, much more so than copper. Because you also have the added benefit of huge water changes that come with dropping the SG.

hth

[Diener311]

What should I do you carry out a hyposalinity treatment? Drop the salinity slow or fast and what level?

[Doug1]

Like BB said lions are pretty hardy, if its getting ich look into the root causes Most problems in lion fish are traceble to feeding issues. They will not do well long term on FW feeder fish, they need the protien and amino acid complexes found in marine fish. Success has been reported with SW mollies gut loaded on Selcon, poor diet = poor immunosystem. Not saying thats the problem but omething to think about
Oh Man I havent heard the Sano word in years, brings back fond memories of asbestos reefing

[beach bum]

Hey diener311, if you can, go ahead and post your maintenance regimen and current water chemistry, plus equipment (tank size, skimmer, filtration). Like Doug said, that will hopefully help us get to the root cause so this doesn't happen again.

Hyposalinity treatment requires that you drop the SG to 1.009-1.010 for a period of six weeks. You will hear variations on this though. Do not let it rise above 1.010. You should drop it over a period of 24 hrs. Others will recommend a longer time frame, but I don't know how severe your case is. FWIW, I have never had a problem dropping it in 24 hrs.

You should also
- make sure you remove the copper from the water first (carbon)
- buffer the new water's Ph
- buy a refractometer, hydrometers are not precise enough

I'm probably forgetting something, but that's the jist of it. hth

[ShirleyM]

Oops...our Volitan Lionfish, 17 months with us and really large, eats about 8 minnows (bait fish, live) per week, plus thawed frozen grocery shrimp...He even ate some Omega One flake food the other day(!).

So, are the FW fish _not good_ for him in the long run?? I figured that shrimp only would be "fattening" and miss some things he needs...

Any suggestions?

Shirley

[Diener311]

currently ammonia, nitrate and nitrite are non-detectable. Ph is 8. I am running a wet/dry filter with a seaclone protein skimmer rated for 100 gallons. And a ultraviolet steralizer. I have a 30, 29 and 6 gallon connected to the sump. Therefore, the ich has spread to all the fish. I currently have the lionfish tank separated b/c i was treating the other tanks with copper. I removed all the copper from all the tanks with carbon and alot of water changes. I am trying the hyposalinity treatment, but my fish just seem to be getting more and more ich on them as I lower the levels. Anyone have any suggestions on what to do? Or will the ich die once I reach 1.010?!!

[malt22]

On the topic, my volatin is in bad shape at the moment as well. First he was getting beat up by my white line trigger (sadly the trigger got the boot back to LFS). His fins started to look better. About three weeks later I come in to find him minus a tail, completely!! The only other fish in the 55gal is a dragon wrasse that is about a fourth of the size of the lion. I was concerned at first that the lion might eat the little guy.

So am I missing something, or could the wrasse have given my big guy a good munching??? I am treating with copper because the lion has had some spotty ich on and off (compliments of the trigger). Will the copper actually deteriorate his fins if used at a normal dosage. . . I am running about three quarters the suggested level, and his fins do look pretty poor (the ones that are left). i have split the tank in two so they are seperated for now, should I stop the copper treatment and try hyposalinity??

Tank specs are just fine, it has been up and running for some time now, water changes about 10 gals every few weeks, no nitrites, ammonia, ph at approx 8, salinity 1.019-1.020. Whats funny is the dragon wrasse, the first occupant of the tank when it was setup has never been sick once, he has always eaten, he survived a velvet plague that took out the other fish in the tank, whats the deal?? Maybe the lion is too big, maybe he is unhappy in the 55gal??

Any help would be great thanks.

[beach bum]

D311-

Make sure you are using a reliable SG tester, otherwise this treatment will be difficult for you.

Be aware that the crypto life cycle is just that, a cycle. You will see spots come and go every few days while your fish are infected. One day is not enough time to tell if they are getting "more and more" ich. The parasite cannot live at the treatment levels prescribed and they will perish, just continue with the treatment and be patient, it will work.

You also might want to check into the status of your test kits (age, reliability), zero nitrAtes is a suspect reading, especially in a FO tank.

Good luck!!

Malt- sounds like that wrasse is trouble!

[Diener311]

Regarding the nitrate level....i have done several water changes in the last couple days so that could be the reason or the test kit may be inaccurate....who knows.

So...the ich will eventually just disappear after 6 weeks at 1.010? How can the fish survive with such a low salinity for such a long period of time?

[beach bum]

It should disappear from the fish long before that, like within the first week. The six weeks is a safety net that will hopefully irradicate all the beasties. If it is not gone from the fishes (if they are exhibiting new spots or spots in different places) after 7-10 days, then you will know the SG is not low enough.

I'm gonna take a chance on this term, but I could be wrong. Fish are more adaptable in their ability to osmoregulate than are invertebrates. The crypto parasites ARE invertebrates - so this is why they perish (along with corals, and snails, and crabs, and stars, etc...).

If anyone else feels like elaborating, please do.

[Doug1]

Shirley, since your lion is also eating shrimp and even flake and growing its prolly not a problem. If it was only getting FW minnows and nothing else it could be
I would be concerned with introducing something into the tank from wild caught minnows, but it seems to not be a problem, FWIW