Large sump in basement?

reeforama · 10-21-2003, 09:51 AM

I have a 72 gallon bowfront on my first floor. I am considering increasing my sump from 10 gallons to 40 and drilling through the floor for the returns.

This will increase the total water in my system and put the 'behind the scenes' stuff really out of the way. Has anybody done such an arrangement? Can a mag drive move water 20 feet or so back to the tank?

Geoff · 10-21-2003, 10:10 AM

the pump will be your sticky point. it takes a lot of pump to push water up 10' or so with any kind of flow. another thing to consider is the amount of water in the pipes both to and from the tank. this needs to be taken into acount when the water level in the sump is decided. depending on the size of the pipe there could be several gallons in the pipes. all this water will want to drain into your sump. you may want a bigger sump.

G~

uryy4me · 10-21-2003, 10:10 AM

I have water pumping from one room to the other and enters my display at the celing level (so I'm kinda there

) I believe you are going to need a pressure pump like an Iwaki RLT, I don't think a Mag will do this.

R1Bill · 10-21-2003, 11:40 AM

that is a great plan for convenience and noise reduction. the problem is twofold. you need a big pump which will a) generate a lot of heat (probably raise your water temperature 2-3 degrees even if it is not submerged, a submerged pump will up is as much as 5 degrees) and b) will cost you quite a bit in your electric bill. Just look at your peak rate and see how many extra amps (extra cooling fan and pump) x 115 volts x 24 hours x 365 days /1000 * xx cents/KW = ??. ideally, IMHO you build your tank into the wall and use the room behind it for all your aquarium related tasks. The sump would then be at the same level as your tank.

bill

reeforama · 10-21-2003, 12:56 PM

I appreciate the responses. In my basement, I have a reinforced shelving system right below the display tank. My sump could go on the top shelf, 3-4 feet below where the sump is in my stand.

I could place a large sump there. Protein skipper, mech filter, and heaters could be housed here. All the noise would stay in the basement, and I could stop hauling 5 gallon buckets around the house. I intend to make a new sump out of a large rubbermaid container.

Increasing the water in the system, and simplifying the maintenance, I would pay for any increase in the electricity.

R1Bill · 10-21-2003, 01:06 PM

i would be more worried about the heat than the electricity. if you use a rubbermaid container, make sure that you use one of the watering troughs that you get at the feed store. don't use a regular 55 gallon one from walmart. they are too flimsy. also, you may want to build a wooden cage around to outside to keep the flex down and also if the bottom is not completly flat, put a 1-2" thick piece of foam plastic underneath the container to spread the load. btw i use a walmart 55 gallon rubbermaid and will soon be replaing it with a sturdier variety.

bill

uryy4me · 10-21-2003, 01:24 PM

You can't place a value on no longer having to haul around 5g buckets of water, the day I stopped having to do this was one of best

I also think Geoff makes a great point about estimating the size of your sump, you'll probably want to use a reasonably good sized pipe.

If you are looking for a pump suggestion, take a peek at an Iwaki 55rtl you'll be pushing about 725gph @ 16 ft head (and I would suggest using 1" pvc). If you can handle mode flow, the 70 rtl will take you up to a bit under 1100gpm, but then you have to find a way to get that much more down into your sump

can anyone comment first hand on amount of heat these specific pumps transfer into the water and the cost to run them? RDO has a pump spec sheet but it does not list wattage listing for iwaki's

R1Bill · 10-21-2003, 01:35 PM

i was running a little giant md3 and md4 on my 180. changed to iwaki 55 and 70 and my temp went up 3 degf. i would use a 1.5-2" pvc pipe to reduce head pressure. 1" seems small for a long run. make sure you put in air breaks so that when your power or pump goes off, your tank doesn't fill your basement :-)

bill

uryy4me · 10-21-2003, 01:42 PM

2" pipe

this is what I have coming off my Sequence 4600. I can see using 1.5" to possibly get more spread out flow but I still thik this may be overkill on a 72g display? ...but hey, what do I know, I run non pressure pumps

Critical point here on the the "air break," hopefully you will remember to do this before you wish you had

Pirate · 10-21-2003, 03:17 PM

I have just what you're talking about, I too was sick of carrying buckets, up and down, up and down. So in my basement is a 125 gal Rubbermaid farm type trough. I maintain 100 gal of water and pump it 9 ft to my 125 tank in my den. And no you don't have to go so big with your pump, nor worry about heat, at least I have had none of those worries as of yet. My return pump is a mag 18, I wanted to go mag 24 and may someday but the 18 is a good flow for me. it is 3/4" up and 1" down. Even in the summer I maintain my tank temp at between 78 and 82. I the winter I do cover my sump with clear plastic sheeting to prevent drastic drops in temp, I am in indiana and the basement stays rather cool, plus this eliminates some of the evaporation. This is heaven... I have my RO/DI unit downstairs also, it seems that ideal setup. My sump has been up and running for 2 years now with no problems. And I can't even tell you what it does for the stability of your system. Good luck, Scott

uryy4me · 10-21-2003, 03:37 PM

Scott - what sort of head are you pushing with the MAG 18 and what sort of flow are you seeing?

Reefo - I figured it would be about 16ft head to run something from the basement up and into a tank on the next floor (8 ft celing + 5 to the top of the tank + few elbows to split flow/otherwise plumb in) which was why I suggested the Iwaki.

Here are more flow rates at different head pressure levels for the MAG 18, maybe this will work out?

9 ft - 900gph
12ft - 750gph
14ft - 560gph
16ft - 275gph

Since this is not a pressure pump these rates drop pretty quick. I did look to see where the MAG 24 would put things but I could not detailed stats beyond @ 9ft - 1400gph with no indication of how fast this rates drop as head increases.

reeforama · 10-21-2003, 03:40 PM

Perfect example of how this forum is so helpful to all of us. Your system is exactly what I will be building. (less water).

Thanks for taking the fears away.

sam · 10-21-2003, 05:13 PM

just curious about this type of setup with the sump in the basement would anyone reconmend doing this if your tank is not drilled . (only hang on overflow box) or is that asking for a flood.

Pirate · 10-21-2003, 05:59 PM

I originally had a hang on CPR with my 75 gal. When I moved up to the 125 I got it drilled, but even though I was always running to check on it, I had no problems, no floods. And as far as water flow... i use my return for surface water agitation. So it's not blowing sand all over, but I have tried it in many different directions and it gives nice movement to softies, 18 - 24 inches from the mouth of the return. And urry, when I bought the 18 I checked the head and had questions about it then, but it seems satisfactory for now. As I said, I am heading toward a mag 24, but that's just my preference, as I have several maxi jets for movement at different levels in my tank. I had Junkzoo over the other day and he snapped some shots, I will try to get some posted soon.

Pirate · 10-21-2003, 06:05 PM

I would go as large as you can with the sump itself. First of all they are not at all expensive, I got mine at Tractor Supply and it was well under $100.00, I think around $80.00. And IMO the larger the more stabile. Plus then you are not limited when you want to move up to that 1000 gal tank we all dream of. I house my heater, protien skimmer there and I add any additives right to the sump. It makes it so easy to drip kalk and so on.

Large sump in basement?

One more thing.