Killing Clownfish. Need Help!

maveri9720 · 11-26-2006, 06:12 PM

Hi all. My third clownfish just died on me and now I am looking for help as to why.

I have a 120g running and has been cycling since the beginning of Oct. I set-up a QT on Nov 14th and have a sponge filter, heater, powerhead and 2 plastic rock scapes from Petsmart. The sponge was in my main tank sump for 2 weeks to populate with bacteria before going into the QT.

Story:

I bought a pair of tank-bred Ocellaris clownfish from the LFS on the 17th. Acclimated them using the drip method for an hour. One fish didn't look to hot, the other looked fine. Param's were: 79F, PH 7.9, Amm .5, SG 1.025, Nitrite 0.

The one that looked fine developed 2 white cotton spots on his dorsal and pectoral fin. Researched and was told to pull the fish out and dab with a Q-tip dipped with Formalin. Did that, spots went away and fish looked good. Did a 20% water change after adding the fish back in.

A day later, the smaller clownfish was found dead, sucked up against the plastic intake of the powerhead. He ate the first day, but didn't afterwards.

2 days later, I buy another clownfish from the same store and also a cleaner shrimp to help out with any disease. Both fish seemed fine and active, both were eating.

2 days later, both clownfish stop eating. Did a 20% water change.

Next day, new clownfish is found dead on bottom of tank. Other fish looks fine. And he starts eating again and swimming around.

Tank param's are same as posted above.

Tonight, the original clownfish starts hiding in a corner, then I notice him swimming all over the tank and trying to jump out and laying on his side. So I scoop him out in a panic and put him in my premixed SW container just to get him outta there. And there he dies shortly after.

I have been feeding with Formula One frozen, Frozen Mysis Shrimp and OSI Marine Flake food, sometimes with Garlic Guard added in. All alternating days to vary their diet. Been feeding once a day.

Also the fish have been about 1 1/2" long. The fish never fought with each other, so the original fish didn't beat anyone up.

I asked my LFS when I went back to buy another one and was told that since they are tank-bred, alot of times, their immune system isn't good and they are prone to disease and die.

The fish also had some stringy poop after a couple days, but read that it would usually go away on it's own.

I have no clue what's going on now. My next step is going to buy a bigger clownfish pair, maybe they will have a healthier immune system.

Can anyone help me out please? If you need more info, please ask. Sorry this is so long, I just didn't want to leave anything out.

Thanks.

P.S. The shrimp is doing just fine.

Hendersonracing · 11-26-2006, 06:18 PM

It usually takes 3-4 months to get the cycle going...I learned the hard way.....Id start with a few damsels to help the tank cycle....also have you checked your calcium & alk...they play the most important roll...

irish02bk · 11-26-2006, 06:22 PM

I would guess its because of the amonia... Also whats your NitrAte at? Both of them are fast fish killers. You should have no amonia and not nitrates in your tank ideally.

jenajet · 11-26-2006, 06:28 PM

To be honest I dont drip any of my fish. The lfs is 45 min. away and I usually want the fish in asap. I temp acclimate them for 15 the scoop em out of the bag and into the qt. You can run the qt if there are no corals at 1.021 which is closer to what most lfs run anyway and the transition will be easier on the fish. I also wait 24 to 48 hours before trying to feed the fish depending on how long it takes them to adjust to the tank. If you ask me dripping is hard on fish but that is just my experience. I have never lost a fish doing this and if by chance ich does show up I just treat the qt because I only use this one for fish so not worried about poisoning any corals, they have a seperate qt. Now that said, your tank is to young to be adding anything yet. Tho qting with just a hob, lights, and heater should be perfectly fine. Just dont add fish to the new tank for a few months until the cycle completes. Using the sponge from the cycling tank sounds like it brought ammonia with it to the qt. Ammonia is hard on fish but could also be from the deaths you had depending on how long they were there.

jenajet · 11-26-2006, 06:32 PM

Dont use damsels to cycle, it burns their gills and even tho they may survive you then have to deal with getting them out. Just let the tank cycle on its own, the process has already began. Personally I would do a 100% water change on the qt wait a couple of weeks then get a couple fish to go in the qt. Leave them there a month or even two. Ignore you main tank, don't add anything or even do waterchanges. It will get ugly, you'll hate it and then it will clear up and probably never have another issue if you maintain waterchanges every other week. This is just my experience tho.

YLChik · 11-26-2006, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish02bk

I would guess its because of the amonia... Also whats your NitrAte at? Both of them are fast fish killers. You should have no amonia and not nitrates in your tank ideally.

my understanding is that you want zero ammonia and nitrIte before adding fish, NitrAte the end of the cycle and the desired amount is zero, however many hobbiest run tanks with some.

You soud like you have a young tank, let it cycle, read some more on tRT - get some good test kits and wait...

enjoy the new tank, and wait a bit before adding any new fishes

dobejazz · 11-26-2006, 07:32 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong But the way I am reading this is all the fish are dying in QT?

hugeness · 11-26-2006, 07:34 PM

This sounds like classic death by ammonia. You have good intentions but patience isn't just a virtue in starting your tank, its a necessity. Don't add any other fish till your ammonia and nitrites are zero for a week bud. GL!!!

maveri9720 · 11-26-2006, 08:05 PM

Thanks for the help all.

I forgot to mention Saturday morning I went to another LFS to buy another clownfish to replace the two that died, b/c I thought it might have had something to do with the LFS I originally bought from. Anyway, I was told to wait and let the clownfish that I had grow bigger and healthier for about 6 months, then buy another to pair with it. So, I bought a Yellow Watchman Goby instead.

Anyway, the shrimp and goby are doing well. Both are active and eating well.

My Amm. is between .25 and .5. To me that seems pretty low. I wouldn't think Amm at that low a concentration would kill 3 clownfish. Also, my shrimp and goby are unaffected by it, so it leads me to believe that there is another cause for their death.

I am using Salifert test kits, so I don't think it gets much better than them.

Also, from my months of researching and reading, in any tank, you aren't cycling the tank, you are cycling the filter. So that's the point of putting the sponge filter in the sump of an up and running tank, to populate it with bacteria, then you transfer it to the QT and run it for a couple days, test the param's and if they are good, you are ready to add fish.

It's also the same way if you break down a QT. You leave the sponge filter in the main tank sump and if there is an emergency that you need to set up the QT in a hurry, you grab the sponge filter, fill the QT and you are ready to go, no need to cycle.

mdcorcoran · 11-26-2006, 08:40 PM

How do Ca and Alk play a role in the health of fish?

maveri9720 · 11-26-2006, 09:01 PM

From what I have read, excess amounts of CA is harmful/lethal to fish. Somewhere around the range of 500 or so. ALK I'm not sure about.

hamslice · 11-26-2006, 09:04 PM

even small amounts of amm and nitrite can be harmful i would definitly wait until both are undetectable before adding fish.

is this a fowlr? if it is then the lr is your filter so in a way u are cycling the tank. if u cooked your live rock then your cycle will be much shorter.

and remember patience is the key i would wait till the tank is atleast 3 months old before adding any fish. you will find that the longer you let things run there course the less trouble you will have in the future.

maveri9720 · 11-27-2006, 02:41 PM

Well, here's a quick update.

I spent most of the morning testing my tanks for Amm. My main 120g tested 0 - .25, my container holding pre-mixed SW tested 0 and my QT tested .25. My goby and shrimp are still doing well and eating well. Actually, the shrimp molted and I found his shell this morning. Thought he died, until I saw him come out from behind the rockscape, then realized he just molted.

So, since I was sure my tank param's were good, decided to take a sample to my LFS and see what they said.

They tested it and said the Amm. was .25, almost undetectable and not a problem for fish. It wasn't even at a point where it would be stressful to the fish yet and everything else came out good too.

The person who tested my water was also the same person who sold me the clownfish earlier and he remembered me and told me that some of the clownfish they had, had died too. Said it must not have been a healthy batch.

Anyway, he was nice enough to order me a pair for free and I should be able to pick them up on Friday. He said these will be wild-caught and should be nice and healthy. They will arrive on Weds and I can check them out Fri and if I like them, take them home then. If not, they can hold them for a week or so for me.

Just wanted to give a heads-up to anyone who was interested.

Thanks.