Joes 120G Tank Build/Sketch/Plan

Jflip2002 · 01-30-2008, 10:20 PM

Alright, so tax returns are right around the corner! This year its going to be a 120g 48x24x24 double cube lol, afterall that is why I claim Single 0 all year long lol. I love the depth of my current 24x24x24 cube, but I dislike how its not long enough. I think the 120 will solve that, while still staying SOMEWHAT practical. Heres what I plan, and here are some questions:

1) Tank: 48x24x24 Glass double cube
2) Tek T5 8x54w fixture
3) Eventually an ASM skimmer or ER if I can find one used, but will use my coralife 125 for the time being
4) 29g long sump/fuge.
5) Flow? Not sure! (Thats my question

Live stock: A couple nice larger fish, along with my pair of clowns, the usual clean up crew. Some Montis on the top, along with some table acros. Then some nice LPS towards the center/bottom, and some softies on the bottom/center.

So I think the T5 lighting will be enough to keep most SPS towards the top, but not overpower my softies towards the bottom, or raise my front rooms temp 10+ degrees like my halides do now.

I plan on having my tank drain to the sump obviously, going into a chamber to decrease speed. Then going to a chamber with Chaeto. After the chaeto chamber, going to the skimmer chamber.

Heres the question: Do I need a heavy duty pump (like a dart or cuda) to return the water? I was told at the LFs, I could use a huge Rio, or something along those lines to return the water, even though its not too much flow. Itd be a very low flowing sump I would imagine. And I would be worried about the detritus staying suspended with a sump not flowing enough. Is the only need for a large pump so you can have less powerheads in the tank? This is whats got my really thinking about the whole sump idea in the first place. I really dont mind the looks of some nicer powerheads in the tank, since I have some decent ones already. Also, I want to use as little wattage and heat emitted as possible.

Im pretty confident with everything here except the whole sump set up. Ive never had one, and I have no idea how to plan one. I want this tank to be easiest to maintain over an extended amount of time possible. I only want to do this once!

Anyone with Sump/Flow expertise, help out with the planning of this.

Fat Tony · 01-30-2008, 10:22 PM

Eheim 1260 throttled back a bit (i would not recommend Rio) would be a great (and virtually SILENT) return pump for your combo... although if it were me i would step up a bit to a larger sump (say a 40 breeder) you do not want the majority of your tank flow to come from your return pump.. you want the sump return to closely match (or a little slower) your skimmer flow rating

you have a couple of options for tank flow... a closed loop or powerheads (i recommend Koralia's or Tunze) and you will want as much flow as possible. the other question is is this tank going to have a sandbed or is going to be barebottom

Jflip2002 · 01-30-2008, 10:24 PM

Yeah, a large sump would be a good idea eventually. I just have the 29g laying around doing nothing with, and I figured thats one less thing to set me back.

I also remembered after reading..... the more ball valves the better! lol

Jflip2002 · 01-30-2008, 10:25 PM

That eheim runs at 65w, which is only 15 less than the dart I believe. That doesnt seem too reasonable for the lack of flow, and high price for such little flow.

Fat Tony · 01-30-2008, 10:29 PM

there are major differences in the design of the pumps... yes it runs at 65 watts... but you will also get years and years and years anyears of quiet reliable service out of the Eheim pump.

the major differences in the pumps is how they are designed to be used.. the dart is a pressure rated pump, the Eheim is not....

Jflip2002 · 01-30-2008, 10:31 PM

So the dart can be used for a couple powerheads also basically? While the eheim will just pour the water back into the tank as a return?

Also, theres a used Barracuda for sale in my club for $200.

jamessp01 · 01-30-2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jflip2002

That eheim runs at 65w, which is only 15 less than the dart I believe. That doesnt seem too reasonable for the lack of flow, and high price for such little flow.

you dont really want to generate all the flow in your tank with a sump return pump, you only really want as much flow going through your sump as your skimmer can handle (assuming your using a in sump skimmer)

the 1260 looks like it will do about 500gph on your system, assuming about 3.5 to 4' of head.

the high flow inside the tank itself can be taken care of with a closed loop system or tunze stream type pumps, or both.

Fat Tony · 01-30-2008, 10:35 PM

yes in a sense.... the object of flow is not to have a direct jet of water... but a wider more dispersed stream of water... the inhabitants of your tank will be alot more appreciative if you decid to use Koralia or Tunze or Seio pumps for the majority of your flow...

also.. like i stated before you want a slower rate through your sump... you want the detritus to settle so you can vacuum it out.. the ideal rate of flow through your sump is 3-5X's the sump volume per hour... (so for a 30 gal sumpo... a ballpark would be 90-150gph and a 40 would be 120-200 gph of flow through the sump)

jrpdriver · 01-30-2008, 10:35 PM

I know I've seen negative comments about them, but I have been runnning Quite One pumps for years and have had zero problems, and you can be right next to it and not hear it turn on when you plug it in. I am currently running a Quit One 5000 on my 125 and it is more than enough, at the height I have the return I figure it's pushing about 750 gph

Jflip2002 · 01-30-2008, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamessp01

you dont really want to generate all the flow in your tank with a sump return pump, you only really want as much flow going through your sump as your skimmer can handle (assuming your using a in sump skimmer)

the 1260 looks like it will do about 500gph on your system, assuming about 3.5 to 4' of head.

the high flow inside the tank itself can be taken care of with a closed loop system or tunze stream type pumps, or both.

oh ok. That makes perfect sense. I guess if the water takes a little longer to leave the sump, thats just that much longer the skimmer can skim.

I have a couple Tunze 6045 Nanos, and a modded Mj1200, along with another MJ1200 Ive yet to use the mod kit on (which I will when Im done being lazy lol)a long with a big rio pump. I think thatd be enough flow.

And that eheim uses 65w while the sequence use 180w, not 80. I was off on that one.

That does make perfect sense though. But Im sure theres a median you need to obtain with the return. You probably dont want too little of flow, otherwise enough isnt getting to your skimmer.

Jflip2002 · 01-30-2008, 10:38 PM

wow, I didnt know only 3-5x the turn over. I figured itd need to be way more than that .

Fat Tony · 01-30-2008, 10:41 PM

FWIW...i have about 40 gallons of water volume in my sump, i have an Octpus NW200 skimmer and i am only running about 275 gph of flow through the sump... so i have about 25% more skimmer flow than sump flow (my figures) so i am recirculating a blit of the water everytime i skim... for me, you can never overskim

Jflip2002 · 01-30-2008, 10:43 PM

So the slow your flow through your sump is, the more you skim the water in the sump. But that seems like the less you get to skim the water in the actual tank. Thats where I get lost here.

crvz · 01-30-2008, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jflip2002

wow, I didnt know only 3-5x the turn over. I figured itd need to be way more than that .

In the tank, yes, but through the sump, no. More than that is typically just a waste. You can get much better flow in the tank from powerheads or closed loops, but the sump only needs a certain amount of flow. A good rule is to match the skimmer flow.

Fat Tony · 01-30-2008, 10:53 PM

think about it this way... even if you are only flowing 150 gph through the sump... you are skimming the water much more thoroughly and you are still skimming the entire volume of the tank in a n hour...