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Old 10-17-2000, 08:32 PM   #1
Alice
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Hmmmm, interesting yes, being compared to the mindless masses I could do without, lol.

I like to think that one of the reasons that myself and other "online reefers" are here is because we wanted more knowledge than we could get at the LFS or books at the library that were outdated 10 years ago.

I also think we are willing to accept scientific data, but it is often hard to adapt it to our tanks and, I have to admit, I do often have trouble understanding some of it. Chemistry student I was not!

So for now, I guess I will just keep muddling through, researching every application and new animal, trying to keep abreast of things and being the slightly-above-average hobbyist.

~Alice

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Old 10-17-2000, 08:42 PM   #2
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Posted my response on reefcentral where general response was highest. http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin...6760#post56760
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Old 10-18-2000, 01:16 AM   #3
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Interesting reading that applies to everyone. (me too)


Hi All,

Was cruising around reefs.org article base today, catching up on things, and I have found some really good stuff there. I'm pretty confident that not many people make it to the library section to read for themselves, so I wanted to throw this out over here. http://www.reefs.org/library/article...hn_shimek.html
Enjoy!


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Old 10-18-2000, 10:06 PM   #4
MIKE
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Hi Gang,

I read the link that's been referred to. I've also read the responses on the other boards. I just wanted to make an observation, as someone who personally specializes in human behavior.

Describing/discussing the scientific method as a concept is usually pretty easy to do. It's also pretty easy to understand and to learn.

As with most systems, the problem arrives when you put humans into the equation. Whether you are a novice reefer, or a respected expert, it's totally possible and common to be swayed in your analysis by personal emotion and preconcieved notions. This "imperfection" makes implementing the scientific method quite tricky by ANYONE.

The scientific method is best served when it's implemented with strict adherence to protocol, method, anaylsis, then peer review. The most respected researchers are known for their impeccable integrity, usually hard won by mastering their own bias. The recent brohaha over Dr. Shimek's analysis of TLF products is a case study in how NOT to do this. And that's not a criticism of anyone in particular, as hyperbole has been involved virtually everywhere. Myself included.

Our hobby desperately needs research. Particularly research done well, with systematic peer review. There are no such mechanisms now, and imho, BB's are one of the worst places for such an endeavor. I remember back at MACNA in LA where Dana Riddle spoke about beginning a non-profit research center, sort of a "Good Housekeeping" for aquarium products. I was ready to write the guy a check on the spot. Unfortunately, I haven't heard anything about it since. Such organizations could provide a forum for independent research, review, validity analysis and perhaps shed some light on controversial products. I fear this is more a dream than a reality however. So, until then, it's a free-for-all with everyone having to discriminate on their own......and the animals often suffer when wrong choices are made.

Good luck
Mike

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Old 10-18-2000, 11:09 PM   #5
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OK I read the post, then I reread the post. I read the rplies and rebuttals.
A couple observations if I may. I am not college educated, there fore no degrees, and I'll be the first to admit I don't know squat but I have observed in my life that people tend to view every thing in terms of them selves and the experience base. Given that I can understand why perhaps persons with advanced degrees tend to think like they do.
Personally I don't worry about what so and so said on a BB because there is a lot more involved than the few words posted in cyber space. If the majority of reefkeepers fall into the uninformed sheep category in the opinion of some well educated people, fine I cant argue the logic there, I have no data to support claims to the contrary. I have my personal opinion based on observation that tells me they may be right. However I feel that the 10%(guessing) of reef hobbiests who spend any time on these BB's are the exception to the masses depending on outdated books and LFS advice that will generate revenue. MOst people here and on other BB's are trying to do the right thing and learn what is involved. OF that group you have maybe 10% that are hard core long term reef keepers that are on the cutting edge of the hobby, and are looking to the Gurus(for lack of a better word) for guidence. There are people out there who may not be scientists but are taking info thrown out and using it to evolve better ways of successfully keeping reef animals. Like I said I know I dont know squat but I spend alot of time trying to improve my knowledge and helping others learn for the betterment of the hobby. This is my passion and I will not let a few lines daunt me. Keep learning and try to pass on what you learn to others for the betterment of the hobby and the larger environmentnal picture at large


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