Ich treatment failed

[offshore]

After treating the tank for 1 month with KICK-ICH it is painfuly clear now that it didn't work! It took 3 weeks for it to come back but did today.

[orlenz]

I went through the same thing a few months back, new to hobby and not much help from the LFS in my area, I bought a powder blue tang, got ich right away, I used that reef safe ich medication at the rate of about $45 a week, I also lowered my salinity, used garlic in there food, etc. it seemed to help temporarily but never really got rid of it, so I found a good deal on a 40W uv sterilizer and ran it inline 24/7, it worked wonders, I ended up losing the tang but all the other fish recovered quickly.

[offshore]

Originally Posted by orlenz

I went through the same thing a few months back, new to hobby and not much help from the LFS in my area, I bought a powder blue tang, got ich right away, I used that reef safe ich medication at the rate of about $45 a week, it seemed to help temporarily but never really got rid of it, so I found a good deal on a 40W uv sterilizer and ran it inline 24/7, it worked wonders, I ended up losing the tang but all the other fish recovered quickly.

yup I spent $50 bucks too, looks like i'm going to try the uv route. I have'nt lost any fish "yet",hope I can get one in time.

[morty343]

Alot of the ich treatments out there use copper to kill it, and I've read that any calcareous substrate (live rock, aragonite, crushed coral, etc.) soaks up copper like a sponge, so it's difficult to keep copper at theraputic levels in a community tank long enough to kill the ich. (Also, in a tank where calcareous substrate has absorbed copper, when the pH goes down over time the copper is re-released, and this can be stressful to fish and re-introduced inverts.) I've heard the best (non-UV) way to chemically treat ich is to use a separate quarantine tank either bare bottom or with a quartz-based substrate, with PVC fittings for shelter, and a sponge filter for nitrification...

[Doug1]

Ich is most likely to be present in most fish systems to some extent, controlling it is often a combo of picking healthy fish to start, quarintine technique, good nutrition and stress reduction. Once its gotten a toe hold in a running display tank, management gets trickier.
Meds are risky at best and deadly at worst, inverts in the tank preclude using copper or hyposalinity, so that limits the remaining treatment options.
UV sterilizers have been around in the hobby for a long time, and are useful when used properly.. Ultraviolet light at the wavelength used in sterilizers is deadly to a majority of micro organisms, ie bacteria, spores, phyto and zooplanton, etc. Different organisms may take longer exposures than others to be eliminated, more in a minute.
A UV sterilizer is basically a tube with a UV bulb inside with a clear waterjacket allowing the water to flow thru being exposed to UV rays, some designs use a U turn so that the water gets double exposure. So basically you got a death ray sealed inside a water jacket with a power cord to supply the lamp.
Since they don't have a supply pump to move water thru they are easily plumbed into the existing plumbing. The trick is to be able to adjust the flowrate thru the UV, aqs the exposure time needed to eliminate say free floating algae cells is different than needed to control crypto(ich) I seem to recall that Spanky had commented on this several times and may have cited some info more related reef environment than the pondclearing basis often quoted by manufacturers

[btang]

I have read that you have to remove all fish from the display tank for 6 weeks. The ich will then die out of the display tank with no hosts. Treat the fish in the Hositial tank based on the recommended treatment but keep them out for 6 weeks. Is this how everyone does it (the correct way). I'm having a heck of a time just trying to get one fish out (without breaking down all the rock). Will it come back if you dont get all the fish out and treat ?(even though they dont have the signs of Ich)

[Kevin1000]

Originally Posted by Doug1

Ich is most likely to be present in most fish systems to some extent

Ich only exist in your system if you put it there. If it exists in most systems thats because those aquarist have not properly quarantined their fish.

[Doug1]

Originally Posted by Kevin1000

Ich only exist in your system if you put it there. If it exists in most systems thats because those aquarist have not properly quarantined their fish.

If you add a fish to the tank, chances are you have introduced it, even if you have quarentined the fish. I suspect that ich is present , just like so many germs humans are exposed to or carry but normally don't get a foothold because of our resistance
If we get cold, wet, tired, stressed, etc we are more prone to colds and other maladies because our resistance is down. The illness is not caused directly by playing out in the rain or snow.
Thats why I stress the no stress, nutrition and other factors. Some fish are more prone to ich than others, Tangs for instance are roamers as opposed to nesters that tend to stake out a small turf and guard it. Tangs cover alot of ground grazing in the wild so it's no surprise that they are stressed by capture and transport

[Kevin1000]

Originally Posted by Doug1

If you add a fish to the tank, chances are you have introduced it, even if you have quarentined the fish. I suspect that ich is present , just like so many germs humans are exposed to or carry but normally don't get a foothold because of our resistance

No offence but whats your support for that position -- these types of comments perpetuate the MYTH that ich is like a virus and just exists in all systems and only comes out when the fish is stress. Frankly thats nonsense -ich is a simple parasite - may have an unusual life cycle not unlike the creature in Alien - but none-the-less its a parasite. Your dogs not born with fleas and your fish is not born with ich.

Ich has been well researched and theres not alot not known about its life cycle or how to kill it. What has not been adequately researched is how to kill the parasite in a reef environment.

Heres a couple of articles you may find interesting.

http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/...um_fish_1.html
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...marineich.html

[offshore]

Originally Posted by Doug1

Ich is most likely to be present in most fish systems to some extent, controlling it is often a combo of picking healthy fish to start, quarintine technique, good nutrition and stress reduction. Once its gotten a toe hold in a running display tank, management gets trickier.
Meds are risky at best and deadly at worst, inverts in the tank preclude using copper or hyposalinity, so that limits the remaining treatment options.
UV sterilizers have been around in the hobby for a long time, and are useful when used properly.. Ultraviolet light at the wavelength used in sterilizers is deadly to a majority of micro organisms, ie bacteria, spores, phyto and zooplanton, etc. Different organisms may take longer exposures than others to be eliminated, more in a minute.
A UV sterilizer is basically a tube with a UV bulb inside with a clear waterjacket allowing the water to flow thru being exposed to UV rays, some designs use a U turn so that the water gets double exposure. So basically you got a death ray sealed inside a water jacket with a power cord to supply the lamp.
Since they don't have a supply pump to move water thru they are easily plumbed into the existing plumbing. The trick is to be able to adjust the flowrate thru the UV, aqs the exposure time needed to eliminate say free floating algae cells is different than needed to control crypto(ich) I seem to recall that Spanky had commented on this several times and may have cited some info more related reef environment than the pondclearing basis often quoted by manufacturers

I just bought a triple pass 9W uv, I'm going to run it thruogh a aquaclear 50, do you think that will be enough exposure? one other ? after say 6 weeks and the uv works should I shut it off untill another problem arises?

[Doug1]

Originally Posted by offshore

I just bought a triple pass 9W uv, I'm going to run it thruogh a aquaclear 50, do you think that will be enough exposure?

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=47767

[Doug1]

Originally Posted by Kevin1000

No offence but whats your support for that position -- these types of comments perpetuate the MYTH that ich is like a virus and just exists in all systems and only comes out when the fish is stress. Frankly thats nonsense -ich is a simple parasite - may have an unusual life cycle not unlike the creature in Alien - but none-the-less its a parasite. Your dogs not born with fleas and your fish is not born with ich.

Ich has been well researched and theres not alot not known about its life cycle or how to kill it. What has not been adequately researched is how to kill the parasite in a reef environment.

Heres a couple of articles you may find interesting.

http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/...um_fish_1.html
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...marineich.html

What supports that position? Its my personal opinion formed over the years. Ich is an identified pathogen, it's not a virus. Fish aren't born with it, but I suspect that most fish harbor the organism at some point, and that often times stress and other factors can allow it to gain a foothold, again thats MY OPINION , not wanting to perpatrate a myth but then I don't see any hard fast answers, there are several treatments touted as being THE ONE, but like a lot of issues in reefing , there are many approaches to the same problem.
I am not advocating this method over that method, I was pointing out that healthy fish tend to deal with disease better than fish that are weak from stress and hunger ,etc

[offshore]

what does 9w pl-type uv lamp mean

[offshore]

Oh boy, I just looked at the links and post's, now I'm even more confused than before, everyone has a completly diff. opinion. I guess I'll have to be my own judge. Wish me luck and thank you for your time.

[Doug1]

Originally Posted by offshore

Oh boy, I just looked at the links and post's, now I'm even more confused than before, everyone has a completly diff. opinion. I guess I'll have to be my own judge. Wish me luck and thank you for your time.

YAh I know its confusing but I give credence to Spanks advice, since they deal with coral in labs, I believe his doctorate is in Pathobiology or something like it so he has done a little reading