I think I figured it out...

cmjreef · 06-21-2007, 10:37 AM

I've had problems with my sps corals, mostly Montis, have been losing color. The corals are still polyped out, but the vibrance of the colors has been replaced by a grayish, granite looking tissue.
Well, i've been using an instant ocean Alk. test kit. I put in 6-7 drops and get a color change. So, Alk. is 3/3.5 and i'm happy. I was suspicious that the drops were too big, so I invested in a Salifert kit. OMG, my Alk. is 15 kH/ 5.37 meq/l. This is my answer isn't it? I hate that I let it get to this point, but I should see a major improvement upon fixing this, shouldn't I? Any thoughts on this subject would be appreciated. Goes to show you the difference in quality test kits. I should have known better!!

Dagrape · 06-21-2007, 10:39 AM

Not too sure if that will have an affect on coloration of corals.....but I am tagging along to see what the more experienced people have to say.

Doug1 · 06-21-2007, 11:39 AM

It will probably affect them somewhat, as its all tied to calc, alk,pH, etc

skeety · 06-21-2007, 12:09 PM

Had a similar problem...turned out I had my MH lights on too long. This was stressin/fading the corals.

What kind of lighting do you have? What's your photocycle?

skeety · 06-21-2007, 12:09 PM

also...descibe your feeding routine. (what? how much? how often?)

gwaco · 06-21-2007, 12:09 PM

yeah craig, more than likely they were suffering from alk burn . i bet you see a big difference as the alk starts dropping.

crvz · 06-21-2007, 12:10 PM

If your alk is that high, I'd be interested to see what they other parameters are (as Doug mentions, calc, pH, even magnesium). I'm not certain I am yet led to the conclusion that this affects coloration, more likely it affects the calcification of your coral. In my experience, coloration is impacted by color temperature of bulbs and nutrient levels in the tank. Test for nitrate and po4 (even though a negative po4 test doesnt always mean you're free from phosphates).

cmjreef · 06-21-2007, 12:38 PM

All other parameters are solid. I know this is what most people say, but really. NO3 is undetectable, Phosphates undetectable, Calcium is 415 ppm. I run a GEO calcium reactor, a chiller keeps my tank at 78-80 F. I have (2) 150 W HQI 14 k Phoenix bulbs and (2) 130 w actinic PCs. The halides run about 9 hours a day and the actinics about 12. The corals actually all HAD beautiful coloration until maybe 2 months ago or so. The tank is 1 1/2 years old. I'm pretty sure this is simply an issue of learning a little better how to calibrate and tweek my reactor. Keep your fingers crossed for me.

Loverotties · 06-21-2007, 01:52 PM

How close are your lights to the water?

crvz · 06-21-2007, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmjreef

All other parameters are solid. I know this is what most people say, but really. NO3 is undetectable, Phosphates undetectable, Calcium is 415 ppm. I run a GEO calcium reactor, a chiller keeps my tank at 78-80 F. I have (2) 150 W HQI 14 k Phoenix bulbs and (2) 130 w actinic PCs. The halides run about 9 hours a day and the actinics about 12. The corals actually all HAD beautiful coloration until maybe 2 months ago or so. The tank is 1 1/2 years old. I'm pretty sure this is simply an issue of learning a little better how to calibrate and tweek my reactor. Keep your fingers crossed for me.

Here's hoping for you!!

I dont want to start chasing a rabbit, as there are plenty threads on this board where the topic is discussed, but "undetectable phosphates" does not conclude that they are no phophates in the water. Hobby test kits are extremely limited in what they measure. If you've changed foods lately, increased the bioload, changed filtration (skimmers, etc), that could be the reason of color shifts.

Could also be bulbs that are getting old, though. When was the last time you changed them?

cmjreef · 06-21-2007, 07:29 PM

They're changed regularly. MHs every 6 months, PCs every year. The bulbs are 6" above the water or so. As far as phosphates, i realize they're there to some extent no matter what a test kit says, but not to the extent that they cause results like these quickly. I've been doing this quite a while and am pretty confident in my skills, but oh well, we'll see. As far as "non detectable" goes, what are my options? We all have this same problem don't we? We can only detect phosphates to some extent, but not as specifically or accurately as we'd like.

gwaco · 06-21-2007, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmjreef

They're changed regularly. MHs every 6 months, PCs every year. The bulbs are 6" above the water or so. As far as phosphates, i realize they're there to some extent no matter what a test kit says, but not to the extent that they cause results like these quickly. I've been doing this quite a while and am pretty confident in my skills, but oh well, we'll see. As far as "non detectable" goes, what are my options? We all have this same problem don't we? We can only detect phosphates to some extent, but not as specifically or accurately as we'd like.

very well said . i think you are trully on the right path with getting the alk down .
the only true way to check phosphates is beyond the skills of most hobbyist as it involves acids . also you will never get an accurate reading since a sandbed is in constant state of flux . one you get one minute will be different the next minute . get the alk down and go from there . and yes i know you have a good bit of comprehension of what your doing

.

gloves · 06-21-2007, 10:57 PM

dude.... you use test kits? thats your problem; you just need to label cds and get loaded. those corals would be lunch for my lion, he's friendly. .....

15 from 3.5 is crazy i am sure that could be a problem. Simply stated, seawater can only hold so many dissolved solids. As alkalinity increases (the levels of carbonates and bicarbonates) there is less "room" for the uptake of other dissolved elements such as calcium, mag,ect........ Calcium and alkalinity exist in a tenuous Hi-Lo relationship; it seems the reactor is working all right. if not, try your new {broken} ro\di !! had you tried vinegar.?!?!?

Quote:

Originally Posted by crvz

I dont want to start chasing a rabbit, as there are plenty threads on this board where the topic is discussed, but "undetectable phosphates" does not conclude that they are no phophates in the water. Hobby test kits are extremely limited in what they measure.

please stop..this could be a thread about test kits and cheap ones suck. it is so important to get good kits, and test test and test again . at different times. feeds.ect.... and maybe two to double. but a good phosphate test will show trace amounts. we have come a long way