I don't know whats wrong...

[Tuscani609]

OK... i'll start off with my tank info.

75 Gal. Reef


Pair of false percs
Blue hippo tang
Two blue green chromis
Mandarin
Coral Beauty
Fire and Cleaner Shrimp
One Queen Conch
Two Fighting Conchs

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Ph 7.9 - 8
Calcium 460 - 470

Alveopora
Leather Coral
Various Mushrooms
Zoanthids
BTA (kind of... explained below)
Crocea Clam (im pretty sure... not positive)

And now for the problem...

Recently my corals have not been fully opening... started out with zoos only paritally opening... they have gotten a little better... Today my leater coral was very small and "drooping" and the Alveopora has only opened a very little bit for the past several days. My BTA lost its tenticles, and appears to have a very "loose" grip on the rock, however it is alive and appears to be growing some new tentacles. The Green Hairy Mushrooms are opening fully, however my purples have not been as large as they were in the past. I know my Ph is a little low, and calcium maybe a little high, however im not sure if that would cause this to happen. Lighting is a pair of 150 Watt Coralife Metal Halides, and a Pair of NO 40 watt actintics. Halides are about 9 months old, I replaced the Acintic bulbs at 6 Months, and the new ones have been in for about 1 month. Last water change about 3 weeks ago. If you have any suggestions on what to do to get my corals back to good health, i would really appreciate it.

Thanks a lot,
Chuck

[reef_noob]

Define recently.
Are you seeing any fluctuations in temp or salinity? How is your alk?
The ph is a bit low, is it fluctuating?
Have you added anything or changed any techniques lately?

[JennM]

Are you using carbon? That's a long time between water changes - if your corals are engaging in any chemical warfare, carbon will help remove the toxins.

Alveopora aren't the hardiest of corals but they tend to do better than their cousins, Goniopora. They also prefer a bit of nutrient in their water - and your water appears to be 'too clean' perhaps for its liking.

It's not unusual for leathers to shrivel up and slough off mucas every now and then... it should stand up again in a day or two, and if it doesn't that indicates a bigger problem... make sure it is in good flow to flush away any slough.

Zoas are some of the most toxic inhabitants of your tank. Mushrooms produce toxins too... all corals produce toxins to help defend themselves and their piece of real estate on the reef.

In my experience, E. quadricolor can take some punishment - and they will flush all the water out of their tissues (shrivel up) and replace the water (fluff up again) if there is a change to their environment - they take up new water to 'match' their surroundings. Could be if there's a nasty in the water, it's not liking the new water it is taking up.

If you have a protein skimmer (assuming you do with params like that), run it wet, and either change your carbon, or start running carbon, and do a good water change. Something tells me that somebody's putting out a toxin that is peeving everybody else off.

Also, check for external sources of toxins - aerosols (air fresheners etc), Windex is a huge killer, so are those nasty scented oil plug in air fresheners - I've seen more than a few people wipe out their tanks with those things emitting crap into the air too close to their tanks. Febreeze is a killer too -- anything airborne can be exchanged into the water - the surface of your tank acts like a giant vacuum cleaner, drawing anything in the air, into the water. Nicotine is poisonous too - as well as anything on your hands - lotions, insect repellant, yard chemicals -- I've seen ALL of these "happen" to tanks...

HTH

Jenn

[SPANKYSREEF]

Is your coral beuty been picking at any of the corals in question? I had a CB for over a year with no problems. One day he just began to pick at my zoo's, my open brain, and shrooms. Once I got rid of him everyone percked right back!

[Superman]

Is your PH reading of 7.9-8 a representation of your ph fluctuation between night and day? If not and these reading are you daytime readings then one of your problems is ph. Once you get over 8.1 with your ph fluctuations you can be a little less worried. I keep my tank at 8.4 and at night it drops down to 8.3. I would buffer your ph over the next week until you get it up and can keep it up. Do you have a refugium on this tank? I would assume this if you are trying to keep a mandarin alive, putting your refugium on a reverse light cycle will help buffer your day to night ph fluctuation.

[Tuscani609]

Thanks for the help guys... no problems with coral beauty, i will however get more flow going to my leather. The Ph reading does indicate my day time reading, and i will start buffering it over the next several days. I have no room for a refugium, but the mandarin eats frozen and live brine in addition to his food on the live rock. I haven't run carbon for about a month and a half, so i will pick some up today. What do you mean by running the skimmer "wet"? I also threw in half a poly filter last night. My alveopora had a big hole in the top of it when i got it, but it was growing very well and the hole is "gone" (don't know if it regenerated or something liek that, but is atleast covered now) and i have not recently changed anything im doing, so thats why im not so sure why this is happening. The corals are decently spread apart, and i do have a skimmer running. No windex or chemicals like febreeze are used near the tank or even in the room. I will check for fluctuations in Ph tonight, however i am not sure how to fix that if it is a problem? Fluctuation in temperature if very small and i do no think that is the problem. I will also be able to do a water change tomorrow or thursday, i have been doing 10%, do you think i should do more?

Thanks again for all the help

[Superman]

So do you have a refugium?

[Tuscani609]

sorry i was editing as you replied, no i do not have a refugium, no room for one. The mandarin eats fozen and live brine in addition to copepods and other food in the tank and has been fine for about 5 months or so.

[Superman]

It is rather tough to fully stabilize your tanks ph during the night without the use of a refugium. Another way of trying to keep your ph from dropping too much at night is to drip kalk during the night. Of course this will really rope you into dosing kalk on a very regular basis. I and many others are huge advocates of refugiums and their numerous benefits, are you sure you don't even have room for a small hang on back refugium? The refugium doesn't have to be large at all. On a slightly related topic, brine have little to no nutritional value for fish, so unless you are feeding the brine selcon or some other suppliment before feeding them to your madarin, you are probably just fillling the mandarin's belly but not keeping the mandarin healthy. The one year mark is in many cases the tough milestone to hit when keeping a mandarin, without a huge amount of copepods and amphipods for it to eat 24/7 mandarins will just waste away, how soon is anyone's guess. If you can get a refugium on that tank you will love the benefits. I have an aquaclear 500 that changed into a hang on back refugium, let me know if you are interested and I will post some pics.

[Superman]

As for the water changes, the larger the better, I took Anthony Calfo's advice and am now love 100% water changes! Of coures on tanks over about 100 gallons this can be quite tough to do, so the closer you can get to a total water change is best in my experience, water params like ph, salinity and temp must be dead on between the tank water and the water change water of course. At first though, don't jump right into a 100% water change, just do something like a 50%, this will keep your corals from bleaching and dying from the difference in light getting though the water, your water is probably pretty yellow from doing only 10% water changes, so if you jumped right into a 100% water change you would be getting a lot more light to your corals and may shock them at first. I would work up to larger water changes over the next couple of weeks IMO.

[Tuscani609]

Thanks for the help, i actually work at a LFS that Anothony used to work at and stops in quite frequently. I'll be sure to ask him about the situation too. I'll let you guys know what happens after i try some of your advice.

Thanks again,
Chuck

[Superman]

Use that resource (Anthony Calfo)! Good luck and keep us posted about your success.

[Tuscani609]

AS for the refug., i have looked at cpr's, however i dont have room for them. I guess its possible i may be able to fit a converted power filter on. Its definatly worth a shot, so i would appreciate the pics. As for the brine, i feed them kent garlic extreme for a couple days before feeding them, so i guess that would help out some.

Just added two bags of chemi-pure and moved more water current toward the leather coral. So hopefully things will start to go in the right direction within the next week or so. Ill try to bump up my next water change (hopefully tomorrow night if i start mixing tomorrow morning) to about 15 gallons.

Thanks for all the help

[Loverotties]

Whats your Phoshate?And if,what remover do you use!

[Tuscani609]

I havent tested the phosphate recently. I use all R/O water and have never had a problem with it. Guess ill go check it now that you mentioned that though haha.