Hungry Hungry Hippo

[Baby fish mouth]

Hi folks, newbe here. Just got into the whole reef tank thing, it's fantastic. Lots to learn, many questions. Must have been back to the store 10 times in the last month. We have a 29 gal that just finished cycling last week and 2 fish were finally alowed to come home with us (P Clown & Hippo Tang) along with a Seabae (sp) anemone. All look great and healthy as of day 4. Both fish are juveniles so feedings are light. Problem is that the clown is very quick and a bit agressive at chow time, usually gobbling up most of the food. I've been trying to drop a tiny amount off to one side to distract him and then sink some on the opposite side of the tank where the Tang usually dwells but he's catching on and grabs his fare and then darts across to muscle most of what the Tang trys to eat. I thought about gently blocking the clown with a net but that seems like "over-management" to me and I don't want to strss anybody out. Any suggestions for me, this new guy to the reef world?

[leveldrummer]

welcome to TRT. what kinda lights do you have? that anenome is gonna need some great lights. and it really needs an older tank. but im not here to critisize. im not sure how to get the tang to eat. i would think that if its hungry enough it will get its food.

[Cuda]

Welcome to TRT. You came to the right place for help, because there's lots of great people on this board that want to help you succeed. You're on the right track with feeding in multiple locations to distract the clown, but while 29 gallons seems like a lot of room now while your fish are small, it's not really enough room for the tang once it grows. You'll find as I have, that most of the experts here on the board recommend 75 gal or more for a single tang because they need a lot of swimming room. You may want to see if the store will take him back and trade for something else more suitable for your size tank.
What kind of lighting do you have? Anenomes are great with clowns, but they need a lot of light if you want to keep them alive. MH (Metal Halides) are the prefered light source to keep them healthy. I'm sure others will chime in with advice, but in the meanwhile do some searches on tangs and anenomes to learn what it takes to keep them healthy. Here's a site you can start with. http://www.liveaquaria.com/default.cfm
What kind of filtration do you use?

[VWD]

Welcome to TRT!!!!

Yes I also think that your tank is too young to have an sea anemone. as Far as the tang , he will over time outgrow the tank, 29 gallon on the small side for the tang. You need to also have upgraded lights , I would think 200 w or more on the 29 gallon.You may get buy with a 130 watt pc's fixture. I have see some anemones do great for years under PC's

[dobejazz]

Welcome to TRT ! Can't offer any better advice than you've received so far

[Loverotties]

Welcome to TRT!Your tank hasn't been up and running long enough for anemone!

[Geoff]

Welcome to TRT!!



putting a lettuce clip in the tank with a small piece of lettuce could work. clowns tend to not like lettuce, so the tang could eat it when it wants. you may also want to try strips of nori instead of lettuce if it does not go for the lettuce.

G~

[skeety]

welcome to TRT!! Congrats on the new tank!

he's some info on the Sabe anemone I bought early on. Might be informative:

http://mysite.verizon.net/s0da/sabae.html

[Baby fish mouth]

Hello all, & thanks to everyone for both the welcoming words and timely advice. Good news is that Mr./Mrs. Tang has perked up, and is munching his fair share! Bad news is now I'm watching the anemone like a new parent looking for signs of distress! It appears that I jumped into the deep end of the tank so to speak. After reading the posts, some obvious adjustments need to be made. For some background, all equipment and specimins were purchased from the same shop, and all directions have been carefully followed (but was/am I getting all the info needed from that source? appears not so). The tank is actually going on 2 months up, one since the cycling (using domino damsels) was completed. A water sample was taken to the shop and all levels were reported to be in the green; Salinity, nitrites) and I now have the temp at 79 degrees.

With regard to the fish size, for space and financial reasons I must stick with the smaller tank. If the fish are able to stay healthy and increase in size, hopefully by that time I will be ready for an upgrade in gallons.

The anemone issue has me concerned as I obviously didn't do my homework and did not comprehend the level of care required, not to mention the fact that six months was reccomended on that tank according to Soda's website (p.s. Great link, many thanks!). I will give it my all and see if I can keep him going. He seems good, vacilates from blown up during the day to slightly defated at night, moves around looking for his best spot, and I actually detect a hint of light brown color to him which I initally though was bad, but perhaps it's good? Lighting must be subpar, as my SINGLE bulb reads "ALL GLASS AQUARIUM LAMP (HG) 17W. Am I correct in guessing that my "generic" set up is 183 watts SHORT!? Holy smokes. As a side note the tank has about 15# of live rock, 2/3 of it was in the tank from the begining and a few bristle worms were spotted but a seperate post I read states that if I see them (in the dark only) there's more hiding.

Again thanks for the advice, this is all new to my family & I. Certainly fun but kinda like watching a car race with the hope there aren't any crashes.

[skeety]

Originally Posted by Baby fish mouth

Again thanks for the advice, this is all new to my family & I. Certainly fun but kinda like watching a car race with the hope there aren't any crashes.

HAHAHAHA GREAT analogy!!

Don't panic yet...

But it sounds like you're using NO (normal output) lighting. This IS going to be WAY insufficient for the anemone. Lighting was one of the hardest things to wrap my head around in the beginning (too many choices, even MORE acronyms).

Ask a lot of questions here.

But know that almost any question you ask, the first response is going to be "What critters are you main goal to keep?"

Figure out the answer to this question, and we'll be able to better help you.

Do you want just fish? Corals? Clams? Anemone's? LPS (larged polyped stonies) corals? SPS (small polyped stonies) corals? Softies? Zoo's? Predetor tank? Tangs? crabs? Which ONE critter is the one you desire more than any other?

Center your tank around that, and you success rate will go up CONSIDERABLY!

as for the current anemone you have...if I'm wrong about your lighting..you might be alright. But if you DO have NO lighting, that anemone is more than likely not going to make it. Your options are to get new lighting ($$$) quickly, or take it back to the LFS, and ask them to hold it for you, until your system is ready.

Some info on lighting:

VHO - Very high output ... look like normal florescent bulbs, but much more intense (4' bulbs can be 110 watts or more). Bulbs need replaced every 8-12 months. cheapest bulbs. Decent light. Depending on the total wattage you get, you can pretty much keep anything under VHO. But mainly, these are best as supplimental lighting (in addition to Metal Halide...see further down)

PC - Power compacts...look like a florecent bulb folded on itself. (U shaped). Makes the size a bit smaller, but still allows for some some-what intense lighting (usually not as intense as VHO). Bulbs need replace about every 6 months. Somewhat pricey. Good for LPS and softies. SPS's can be kept up really high. Clams are not a good choice under PC lighting. Cheaper at first, but usually more expensive in the long run.

MH - Metal Halide .. point source light (like the bulbs in your lamps) But allow you to achieve REALLY high intensity lighting. Great for almost all uses. But pricey up front. The following is my opinion: MH is the best choice...in the end, you'll probably get MH, but have wasted money on several other fixtures in the mean time. MH are the brightest and give a realistic light. When mixed with supplimental VHO actinic (see below) can give great results.

T5 - Really don't know much about these. They're like VHO, but miniturized, but somehow still give pretty bright light. Someone else can chime in on T5

LED - LED is really tiny low (~1 watt) lights. USUALLY used only for "moon" lighting. A really dim light over you tank during the evening. LED is the same kind of lights that are on the front of your computer tower, or your DVD player, etc. By itself...useless. But supplimentally...kinda neat.

NO - Normal output... regular low wattage florescent bulbs.

Those are the different TYPES of lighting.

Now, for each, there's different K ratings (K for kelvin...color rating).
This is basically, WHERE in the color spectrum (infra-red to ultra violet, etc) that that color bulb lies.

Actinics (usually in the 420-460 nano meter range) are purple/blue lighting that bring out the florecing protiens in the corals. Easiest to think of it as a black light type bulb for your tank that enhances the colors.

10K - Daylights. This temperature rating is similar to natural sunlight.

then...there's 20K bubls and 15K, and 6K Each with varying degree's of yellow/blue. There's lots of debate over the rest...so I'll stay away from any intro to them....as I'm not very educated, and more than likely, i'd mislead you.

hope all that info isn't too much, and actually helps you.

I also recommend you check out TRT"s book recommendations. My personal favorite is Eric Borneman's Aquarium Corals (2nd book in the following link). It's got a nice reference for all the different types of corals, but more imporantly, it goes over all the different types of reef set-ups, equipment, etc. And goes into detail on "husbandry", the most important part of a reef. Husbandry is a term that describes your habits/methods/procedures for keeping your reef. Anyways...the books:

http://thereeftank.com/books/

[Cuda]

Hang in there Baby Fish Mouth. Skeety's giving you a great class on lighting. If you do in fact only have the NO lighting, maybe I can help you out. I've got an IceCap 250 watt Metal Halide ballast with Spyder Light reflector and mogul socket just sitting around. It's got a used bulb in it but it would hold you over until you get a couple of paychecks and buy a new bulb. New this stuff would probably cost you $160 or more, but I'd be willing to let it go for $75 + shipping because of your situation. I don't know where you live but if it's near me you won't even have to worry about shipping. Do some research and see if you think it's a good deal. Hope this helps. Be advised that this kind of lighting causes your water to heat up and you will need some kind of fan over the tank at the very least to help cool it, and with a small tank you may even need a small chiller. The cheapest of those will set you back about $300 new and a little less used. If you have to you can raise the light a little higher to reduce heat, but it also reduces light. As you can see, one thing, (expense) leads to another, which is why this is such an expensive hobby. On the good side it's very rewarding when you can successfully provide a home to such difficult things animals.

If you think that will be too hot, I've also got a VHO set up. It's an IceCap 660 ballast with heat sink and wiring harness. It's currently set up for 4 x 36" VHO bulb with waterproof end caps in two separate 36" caps and reflectors. The nice thing about the 660 is that you can run it with 2 or 4 x 24" bulbs which would fit your current tank and then down the road when you upgrade tanks you can use it with larger bulbs. This set up would cost about $250 new, but I'll let it go for $150 + shipping. Once again the bulbs are used, but this won't heat the tank up as much and offers lots of versatility in the future. Please don't think I'm trying to talk you into either of these, I'm just giving you choices, since I get the impression you don't want to take the anenome back.

I can't believe the same LFS sold you all that equipment and then the fish and anenome that weren't suited. Maybe it was just an ill informed employee and not the owner, if so you may want to advise the owner to train his staff a little better. If it was the owner that sold you the stuff or they don't care about this issue, find another store in your area and develop a relationship with them. Vote with your wallet, and keep reading, books and online and you will be successful. Good luck.

[Geoff]

there are a couple of fairly inexpensive options for you. the colour will be a bit yellow, but the anemone would like it.

at HD there is a company called Lights of America. they have several super big PC (see the above super post from skeety) fixtures for sale in the security light section. they go all the way up to 100w for like $50 or $60 bucks. they are a 6.5K bulb, so a bit yellow. you can eek it down a bit by replacing your NO bulb with an actinic NO bulb.

if you can spring for a bit more, getting a 70w MH fixture would also help. go much more than that and Cuda deal is gonna be the best deal around anywhere.

G~

[skeety]

Originally Posted by Geoff

(see the above super post from skeety)

hahahahahah

yeah...I tend to babble a bit. Sorry.

[Hardhead Cat]

Welcome to TRT Fish Mouth - - great advice, I can't add anything else - -

HHC