how long is the life period of sandbeds

[SPC]

Originally Posted by Twitterbait

Steve,
It is not the existence of variables that makes the dreaded BB vs DSB discussion pointless, it is the amount of variables that effect it.

...but see the DSB vs BB discussion is not "dreaded" to some of us, in fact, IMO it is a very good subject to discuss in this hobby. If it wouldn't have been for the many discussions we have had on this subject, I would have a huge gap in my understanding of how substrates actually function.

i can set two tanks up next to each other, seed the same way, have the same flow, set everything up the same way... and they are still going to work differently.

...but like I said to motorslave, the science does not change. Lets say that I set two DSB tanks up that are exactly the same. Due to different variables they may arrive at a eutropic state at different times, but the science tells us that both will eventually reach this state.


it is not a lack of respect for anyone, it is my opinion.

Nor did I really feel that you were disrespecting anyone on purpose, I was only trying to point out that it could easily be taken this way by posters who do not feel this subject/thread is pointless. You see, there are many different subjects discussed on this board that could be thought of as pointless because of the variables and the fact that they have been discussed in length before. How long do you think it would take for someone to be banned from the board if they posted "this subject is pointless" everytime the subject(s) came up?

BTW, i posted the link to the other thread so you can all see what has already been discussed. some of us don't necessarily like having to re-hash old complex statements. if you look at the length of some of the posts in that thread you can see why Tom or Spanky don't want to have to re-type that up again.

I understand why one would want to make others aware of threads dealing with the same subject, in fact, I do it all the time (which BTW I did quite a bit of typing in those same threads).

lets keep the discussion civil

Sorry, I just don't understand why this would need to be said for this particular thread. Maybe I'm just a bit numb from the many years of DSB discussions I have participated in.

Steve

[Fly Guy]

Originally Posted by SPC

Sorry, I just don't understand why this would need to be said for this particular thread. Maybe I'm just a bit numb from the many years of DSB discussions I have participated in.

Steve

FWIW....i didnt get it EITHER

[motorslave]

Well, I didnt see where I was disputing science.. I didnt see much other than a warning to keep it calm and personable. Dont understand that? Huh. Want to make a point of bringing everything up that someone says to try and debunlk them, go ahead.
The point is keep it civil as was said.
If you read some of what was posted you will see that you and I agree on many things but my posts were not to get into the debate or dispute anyones knowledge or what they have read. This is not new and we have seen what can happen in these discussions. Again, if you read you will see the message...keep it civil. If that is offensive, agressive or argumentative to you so be it. When attitudes start to show through and a situation is at hand its best to keep it calm, thats what I was doing as stated. Keeping it civil and respectfull is not an option. Putting things in such a way as to provoke is also not an option.
Now do you get it?

[motorslave]

resume debate!

[SPC]

Originally Posted by motorslave

Well, I didnt see where I was disputing science.. I didnt see much other than a warning to keep it calm and personable. Dont understand that? Huh.

Oh, OK, but I still don't see where the warning was necessary.

Want to make a point of bringing everything up that someone says to try and debunlk them, go ahead.

LOL, now some might just take that sentence as a personal attack.

Hmmm, now let's see how I can exaplain this. First of all the word "debunk" and "everything" are not correct (there's those variables again ).

I have always been a questioner. When I was a little boy I was that kid that was always asking questions. In school I was the kid that stayed after class to discuss a subject with a teacher if I didn't understand or had a difference of opinion.

What you see as an attempt to "debunk", I see as simply a way of dicussing an important (IMO) subject in order to try and arrive at the real facts as they relate to the subject.

Here' an example. About 3 years ago many of us were running very successful DSB tanks when suddenly some guy named Spanky posts to RC that his DSB had gone sour. Huh? How can that be? There's two hobby expert's that have shown through science where a DSB never goes sour if run correctly. Well some of us began to question "debunk?" Jerel on this. We asked the hard questions and brought "everything" up. At this point Jerel had to make a decission. Are these guy's just a bunch of smart butt's who are trying to debunk what I am saying simply because they want to make me out to be wrong? Or are they questioning "everything" I am saying because they really have an interest in the truth no matter what the outcome. Well lucky for us he saw our way of discussing a subject as a real interest in learning the true facts, and continued to give us a real education on the subject. Thanks again Jerel

This is not new and we have seen what can happen in these discussions.

...and we have seen what can happen when we didn't have these discussions, as well as some discussions on this subject that didn't get out of hand.

Again, if you read you will see the message...keep it civil. If that is offensive, agressive or argumentative to you so be it.

No, it actually just didn't make any sense to me as it related to this thread. Do I understand why it is a good idea to discuss things in a civil manner? You bet.

When attitudes start to show through and a situation is at hand its best to keep it calm, thats what I was doing as stated. Keeping it civil and respectfull is not an option. Putting things in such a way as to provoke is also not an option.
Now do you get it?

...but see I'm still not sure how your first post to this thread dosen't fall into the category of "provoking". Starting a first post with "Get over it!" and then going on to say how arguing this subject is "pointless" (amongst some other comments) could sure be interpreted as a lack of respect for those who have participated in the thread.
Now do you get that?

Steve

[Twitterbait]

I may have jumped the gun with prior comments. please accept my apology and continue with the discussion.

[motorslave]

Steve, I my self have jumped the gun and over reacted. My words were based on prior issues and what I percieved as a potential problem. Add to that my lack of tact in my approach and you get what he had here...a failure to communicate! Please accept my oppology and continue on with the topic at hand.

Robert

[SPC]

Originally Posted by Twitterbait

I may have jumped the gun with prior comments. please accept my apology and continue with the discussion.

Originally Posted by motorslave

Steve, I my self have jumped the gun and over reacted. My words were based on prior issues and what I percieved as a potential problem. Add to that my lack of tact in my approach and you get what he had here...a failure to communicate! Please accept my oppology and continue on with the topic at hand.

Robert

Apology accepted, guy's , and please understand that I respect your moderating postions and I know how difficult it can be at times.

IMO these types of misunderstandings generally come down to perspective's, and I try to keep that in mind the best I can, but it is not really possible alot of the time because perspective is such an individual thing. As a Mod you are bound to know some behind the scene stuff that we as posters are not privy to which can make it a real balancing act at times. As a poster on the other hand, I have participated in threads on the various boards that others have not been involved with, and therefore I try (try being the key word here ) to be aware of the fact that some of what I write may not make alot of sense to many, and/or my level of tolerance may be different too.

Anyway, I hope that the thread has been somewhat informative for some and that we can continue to discuss these types of subjects in an adult manner.

Steve

[gwaco]

good to see your back steve .

[motorslave]

I say continue the discussion as many people do gain alot from this subject. As said, it wont go away so as long as it remains civil have at it!