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Old 04-09-2005, 11:50 PM   #1
fishiesRfriends
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How do I know if blue starfish is still alive PlEASE HELP!!


Hello,
I have alot of ?s. I dont know if my starfish is alive or not. I did a water change about 4 days ago and after I did my nitrites went up. About 2 days ago my blue starfish started to lean halfway upside down. I laid him on my sand the right way and he moved enough to straighten himself out. he has not moved since then. Then today my cleaner shrimp was eating at his central disc, practically lifting half of the starfish up. I used my net to get him away from him and put the starfish in the net to see if I could tell if he was still alive. I Cant tell. I put him back on the sand. I dont know if it is wishful thinking or not but I think he moved on arm within the 1/2 hour. I see where he was there are 2 sm. pieces of what looks like a starfishes underneath(white bubbly tissue), but Im not sure if thats what it is.
Ok after reading some info on your site I realize I did not acclimate him the correct way! Also the man at the petstore lifted him out of the tank for at least 20 sec. to show my fiance before putting him in the bag! I thought they were never supposed to be exposed to air! Oh Ive had him for about 2 weeks. He seemed (very slowly) making his way around tank.
Now I have a feeding ?. I tried to feed him froen brine shrimp with my turkey baster. I cant tell if hes eating it or not it doesnt look like any is staying underneath him. Also my cleaner shrimp and fish come running up and take his food from him, is he starving to death?I dont have cubes of feeze dried shrimp but I will get some tommorro if thats what I need. Tonight I have freeze dried tubiflex worms, frozen brine shrimp and clam juice.
I FEEL AWFUL ABOUT THIS. PLEASE BE SENSITIVE WITH YOUR REPLYS.
I havent lost any fish or inverts yet and I am really frazzled.
In the middle of typing this I saw cleaner shimp going at him again, I have a cheapy breeder net in my tank w/plants growng on my live rock so my tang wont eat the plants. Its getting a little bit of water movement w/filter.
Anyway, I moved the starfish in there and HES TOTALLY STILL ALIVE! The pieces of him were from the top of one arm! I can see were it came from. What is going on. Why is the shrimp eating at him, His arm did not look like that this morning. I can but some stress coat in tank( should I use melafix) Ive never medicated a saltwater tank before and wont until someone can help me. You woldnt beleive how he was going at him, sticking his bony little legs right into starfishs arms, That can not be good sign.
At least now nothing can get at the starfish. Someone please help me! Should I try to feed him brine shrimp now that he is alone? Or will he be to stressed to eat? I feel awful about this. Hes alive though, can someone help me nurse him back PLEASE !!!!!
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Old 04-10-2005, 12:44 AM   #2
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Did I miss something?
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Old 04-10-2005, 12:49 AM   #3
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drsyme, I was typin the rest of my message. Please come back and help me.
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Old 04-10-2005, 12:59 AM   #4
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ok yes I was missing something!

Honestly I can be a smartass at times, but I was wondering if there was another thread or something.

Anyway, I dont know that much about blue starfish. I have some sand sifting starfish and I dont feed them, I figure they are detritus feeders and will make do with what is in the tank. I kinda suspect the same thing with yours but I am not sure.

As far as the shrimp eating at the central disc, I dont think this is a bad sign.

If you have had him for two weeks and he was fine until now, I dont think it is an acclimation problem. But there are many out there that know more than me.

My advice at this point is to leave him be. Dont add anything else for now, until you know exactly what you are adding and why.
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Old 04-10-2005, 01:18 AM   #5
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Thank you for your help. Poor little guy, His one arm looks pretty bad I can see his insides. I hope he heals ok. Why would cleaner shrimp do that to his arm? Makes me want to get rid of them.I never noticed them messing with him until today. He is in a safe place for now and can stay there until he heals but I cant imagine that he can stay in there forever. When he heals will cleaners just do this to him again? I thought cleaner shrimp were peaceful. I really dont like them right now.
Thanks,
Juliette
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Old 04-10-2005, 01:38 AM   #6
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Also sometimes those cleaner shripmp bombard my annome, taking the brine shrimp I just fed him with a turkey baster right out of his tenticals. They act like I dont feed them! I am afraid to overfeed but man whats wrong with them, They like to nibble on romaine lettuce w/my tang. Those little guys are like bottomless pits.
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Old 04-10-2005, 02:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishiesRfriends
Poor little guy,
Anyone else think of Slingblade? Poor little feller...



Shrimps can be iffy, sometimes they are perfectly peaceful and very beneficial, other times... well you know.

Most echino's will regenerate with no problems, make sure there are no drastic changes in the tank until the wound is healed over.

Hope you save him!
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Old 04-10-2005, 03:01 AM   #8
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Im supposed to be doing my chemistry right now but I cant stop looking in the tank! I lose more study time that way.
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Old 04-10-2005, 03:29 AM   #9
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Uhhh...

Peppermints and misc other cleaners will occasionally clean Asteriodes, but not often. If you can see white tissue, it is unlikely the sea star will make it, sudden changes in salinity and systems lacking auto topoff that will maintain ROCK STEADY salinity are usually the cause of the demise of these little beauties.

Rather than go into detail, I will direct you to this thread for information on what is happening with the sea star. I believe there are pix with the post, but seeing how much of the older archives have lost their associated photographs, I will post pix later if they don't show with these threads.


Sorry to hear about the issues with your Linckia sea star, in good health they can weather an occaional swing in salinity, but most of the time when you're buying one from a LFS, few measures have been taken to avoid sudden changes is salinity, and acclimitization usualy involves zipping the bag open and dumping the specimen into the holding tank for transshipping. By the time you get the specimen, it may have already suffered irreparable damage that may not show for three to four weeks.


Sometimes even after suffering the exploding/melting syndrome asociated with the salinity swings, they will make it. Several years ago I received a pair of purple Linckia sea stars that had been freshwater dipped for (edit here for typo-tdw) parasites in a LFS... Although it took several months to recover, one did make it, but that is not the normal outcome.


Related post


Differing POV's


Sorry to hear this about your sea stars, HTH
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Old 04-10-2005, 03:37 AM   #10
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btw, no need to target feed, they will find biofilms on the substrate that they can eat. For this same reason, you will need around 3 to 6 sq feet of substrate and rock to feed the Linckia sea stars, limit your collection to what your system is capable of supporting. Ditto for Fromia spp.
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Old 04-10-2005, 04:33 AM   #11
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Aww man I just got done post about this on the other thread and am sad that my gut was right....be right back.
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Old 04-10-2005, 04:36 AM   #12
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any update?
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Old 04-10-2005, 02:51 PM   #13
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Ok this morning he is missing a part a part of his leg. non of his central disc is missing .
I read the info and is very helpful. I have melafix and pimafix. Supposed to to naturally help heal. Will this possibly help him, or at least fight bacterial and fungal while in the healing process( which Im hoping he will be in soon.)I need to help him make it. What can I do for him now to try and help him. He is in a small area now and is not trying to move anyway so I am thinking he needs me to try to feed him, what would you suggest. I feel so bad, I really want him to make it, I dont care how long it takes. What can I do for him at this point! Ill try to get a pic, He really does not look, I dont want to loose him, maybe Ill get lucky and with the proper care I can get him back to health.
Juliette
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Old 04-10-2005, 05:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishiesRfriends
Ok this morning he is missing a part a part of his leg. non of his central disc is missing .
I read the info and is very helpful. I have melafix and pimafix. Supposed to to naturally help heal... I need to help him make it. What can I do for him now to try and help him... I really want him to make it, I dont care how long it takes. What can I do for him at this point!
Juliette, there isn't a lot for you to do for the sea star at this point, the damage that has occurred is slow to heal, and there are not a lot of things that will help as far as a prophylactic treatment for infections.

The best you can do is keep the water quality at its absolute best and avoid unneessary stressors on the tank. The use of meds is often a modifier for the entire system, so I do not recommend that you use them. Don't try to feed the sea star, it will feed once it's ability to provide locomotion is restored. Make absolutely sure that you stabilize the salinity at full strength SEAWATER parameters (35 PPT) and employ automatic topoff to insure few if any changes in salinity. Remove any potential predators to isolation, and do not handle the sea star any more than absolutely necessary, as abrasion to the aboral surface will damage the dermal gill apparatus and may further compromise the survival of the sea star. Remove and dispose of any pieces left in the tank that do not have a piece of the oral disc attached to prevent oppoirtunistic infections from gaining a foothold in the tank.


Best to remove stressors and let it sit.


HTH
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Old 04-10-2005, 05:23 PM   #15
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btw, there ARE some species of shrimps that do feed on seastars (in particular, Hymenocera picta or H. elegans-- Harlequin shrimps), so if you have any of these in the system, make sure to remove them as well and any fishes or opportunistic crabs that may feed on the injured echinoderm.
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