How aggresive are torch corals?

[dustin]

I posted earlier seeking advice on a good final fish addition to my 29. I was torn between a dwarf angel or a clown.

Now that I am leaning more toward a clown, Ive been going back to some research on which corals to add for the sucker.

Between a torch, hammer, or frogspawn, which is the least aggresive? I know a bubble would be a pretty none aggresive choice as well, but I like the small polyp varieties more.

Any first hand experience with these corals?
I have a nice torch at my LFS Ive been checking out. They also have a forgspawn but its 80 bucks! I planned on getting a coral and chilling for a while as it adapts to my tank before finding a clown.
Thanks,
Dustin

[Alice]

Any of the corals you mentioned can be quite aggressive given the right circumstances. A 29 really doesn't give you a whole lot of room and in a relatively short period of time any of them could easliy take over 1/3 or more of your tank.

I have had clowns "host" with open brains, star polyps, branching softies like colts and Kenya trees, leather corals, assorted different shrooms, Ricordea polyps and even a feather duster. One of them may be a better choice for your tank unless you are prepared to have very few other corals in the tank with the torch, hammer etc.

~Alice

[dustin]

So even a bubble would be too aggresive for a my tank size?. I would be willing to give 1/3 of the tank to one of these corals as I want this as my mainstay. But I was told that the frogspawn was by far the most aggresive, and a torch wasnt as bad with a bubble being lowest on the list. I really like these corals, and was hoping for some first hand experience with them in a confined space.

Another others?

Thanks so much....

[canadawest]

I have all three of the corals you are considering.

I have kept a fair size torch coral for about 5 months now, and actually just traded a frag of it for a frag of frogspawn yesterday. I also have had a hammer coral for the same amount of time, which has doubled in size and I have since split into two and frag'd one half for trade.

As I just got the frogspawn, I cant comment yet on how agressive it is, but I can say that neither my torch or hammer are aggressive at all.

Sure, they all have the ability to sting other corals, but this requires the coral to be in contact physically with another coral, and only seems to damage softies and SPS corals. If you have a location for your new addition that keeps it away from soft and SPS corals, it will be fine.

In my experience other LPS corals aren't really affected by each other, but again give them some room. Under healthy conditions LPS corals will grow slowly but steadily, but shouldn't be a concern if you have a good area around it to expand. And you've always got the option of frag'ing off pieces as it gets larger. Makes for great trades or credit at your LFS.

[vulkum]

i too have a frogspawn, green torch, bubble and hairy mushrooms i bought hoping my 2 clowns would take to one of them but they havn't. i think you should consider getting a true percula clown, maroon clown, or a clarki as the false percs i hear are the hardest to pair up with something! good luck. i also have these corals in a 29gal and just give them a little more room than the leathers, but hopefull soon they will be relocated to a 90gal reef! a friend has 2 true percs that call a huge frogspawn home and its so cool to watch that i wish i had spent a little more and gotten those fish rather than the false percs.i havn't noticed any aggresion from any of those corals and i have a ton of frags crowding them all in right now. but i would heed alices advice as shes been doing this a little longer than i.
aaron

[tdwyatt]

Hmmmm.... a Euphyllia sp. that is not agressive at all.... H,mmmm...

I might suggest that in a 29 gal tank, if you get one of these corals, that you keep only similar spp. of these corals, or corals out of reach of the sweeper tentacles that will be produced if the corals have a show down. These corals can be EXTREMELY aggressive if placed in close proximity to non-similar corals. Although some Euphyllia can be placed directly next to each other, there can be an occasional battle even between very similar Euphyllia spp. as well. Just because you have not witnessed these corals attacking each other does not meant that they will not do it under the right (or wrong...) conditions. Not only can they be aggressive to other corals, but if you put your hand too close to a torch without a glove on, be prepared for a strong sting and possible skin wheel and flare reaction. These corals have a sting that is more than capable of raising a blister (or string of blisters) on a careless keepers hand.

The structure of these corals is very anemone-like, a bag with large tentacles, intended for large prey capture, and more than capable of delivering their nematocysts to corals nearby (even the bubble corals, prolly the most aggressive of the corals we can keep at home) They are quite easy to keep in a lagoonal environment, but need some regular current to keep the creatures cleansed of their eating habits (and they do require some occasional feeding with meaty fish/shrimp/clams, etc soaked with a little HUFA product like Selcon)

An easy-to-keep creature, and a good beginner coral if you have good water quality and some current and good lighting, although in a 30 gal tank, it may become the predominant creature, turning your 30 gal tank into a specimen tank.

[DaveJ]

I can attest to the sting of a torch, when I introduced my clown he took a liking to it and got a few stings and marks because of it. He leaves it alone now.

TD, how do you feed your torch? I have tried laying scallop or smelt on mine and it doesn't seem interested in them at all. My brain cobbles them up tho. Also, my whello doesn't seem to take to bits of meat either, nor does my galaxea. Any suggestions on those ?

[tdwyatt]

how do you feed your torch? I have tried laying scallop or smelt on mine and it doesn't seem interested in them at all. My brain cobbles them up tho. Also, my whello doesn't seem to take to bits of meat either, nor does my galaxea. Any suggestions on those ?

These corals seem to need training and definitely have preferences on the things they eat. I make a multi-food goop that I feed the corals in general. I start with 2 large raw shrimp (remove the exoskeleton), 1 small squid, 2 or 3 scallops, 8 drops of selcon, 1 cube of frozen mysis shrimp (set aside to thaw,) and 1/2 tsp. DT Phytoplankton. (this is for effect as much as anything, they all seem to take it.) I put all the meats in a small food processor and flick it enough times to where the meats are small enough to not clog up the turkey baster ( I use a 1 oz size turkey baster with a piece of rigid larger diameter airline epoxied and siliconed in place.) I put this mix in a small (about 1 cup) Tupperware container and add the DT, the thawed mysis shrimp, and the Selcon on the mixture. I cover this and put it in the frige for about an hour, then remove it and add about 1/2 to 1 cup of tank water (to make a thin slurry). I use the turkey baster to suck up a dose for each of the creatures I feed.

Turn off all the circulation in the systems and wait for the water to come to a standstill. Then feed the individual polyps, gently putting the mixture onto the polyps as close to the mouth as is possible. When I feed my neon green Euphyllia (neon green torch), the polyps actively capture the foods with tentacular adhesion, moving the food to the oral opening. The red Torch doesn't seem to feed as aggressively (longer more flowing tentacles,) but will feed as well, and requires gentle placement of finely divided foodstuffs.

When feeding frogspawn, I have to have a pretty good idea where the oral opening is and gently squirt a little of the mixture near each mouth (the frogspawn doesn't do a very good job of capturing the food with it's tentacles, but still feeds. I can tell when I miss feeding it for a few days.) The hammers will adhere the food to the tentacles as well. They feed almost as aggressively as the anemone do. (heh, the E. quadracolor just split into two separate anemone, and I thought it was sick!!!) I have to feed the pearl coral the same way I feed the frogspawn, gently laying the food on top of the coral and hoping that it will eat before the fish or shrimp decide to rob it.

The same is true for Trachyphyllia, the Favites, the moon coral (Favia) the Caulastrea (Candycanes), Scolymia (doughnut), and Lobophyllia (open brain), but these are generally better fed at the end of the photoperiod, with a little coaxing as well. I usually feed them right when the lights go off, using the same mix, but I let it settle a little, and take some of the liquid above the food and squirt a little of it on these corals to stimulate the feeding response. I usually wait about 10minutes and then feed these corals, as their tentacles have now expanded from the polyp's tissue. These corals are generally very slow to feed, with very small tentacles that do not normally extend during the daytime. The presence of food in the water will stimulate them to expand their tentacles (which may take as long as 15 minutes to occur) allowing you to gently drop small amounts of the mixture directly onto the oral plane of these creatures within easy grasp of the tentacles. For several of these (the brains and donuts in particular) I will either fend off the fish and shrimps/crabs (feed them all well before starting) or put a small plastic berry cage over them after they are fed (this is becoming increasingly more difficult as these corals grow)

Although I don't recommend feeding them brine shrimp, blowing a few thawed ones over the polyps will stimulate the feeding response as well as the supernatant above the food mixture does. Don't worry about the stray bits of food that end up in the rock, the starfish and hermits and emeralds, etc., will find them if the fish don't help you do that.

I feed in this manner 3 or 4 times a week, and I have found that if you take the time once every 2 weeks to make a big batch of the food, you can use the regular food processor (I have a small dedicated one for small batches) and make a few quarts of the slurry at a time, just don't add the water. Take an icecube tray and wipe each mold with a little selcon, then glop the mixture into the tray and freeze it. Then you can just measure a cup of water into the Tupperware container and let the cubes you plan to use thaw just prior to feeding. I usually remove the cubes from the ice tray and store them in a ziplock bag.

The biggest problem is that some of these corals are not aggressive feeders, and will require some training to recognize that the stuff on their oral disc is food. Some will eat fish (frozen whitefish, for example) some will not, but all seem willing to eat shrimp. If you use fish, stay away from oily fish (i.e., cod, etc.), it definitely will cloud the water if fed in the manner I have described, and tends to cause little mini-blooms of cyano for a day or so when oily fish are used (Hmmmmm, I wonder why oily fish???)

Oh yeah, one more thing, set a timer for 45 minutes when you turn the circulation pumps off, this will remind you to turn them back on (heh, VERY easy to forget, I can attest to that )

Hope this helps you out!

[Doug1]

Yes indeed, timers are your friends. They come in very handy at times

[OodleyBoodely]

Tom, great reply on feeding corals. I have a frogspawn that seems to be doing well. I feed it whatever I'm feeding the tank, a squirt of brine, DTs, Formula one, blended preps with Zoecon, ect, even flakes. Mine seems to do best with the smaller particals. I have not been able to get it to take larger pieces, but I figured it is probably getting enough, anyway.