Help w/ Dead Snails?

[bwilcove]

Put in ~3 varying snail types into my tank. They were dead within 1 hour. My NH3 and NH4 is ~0.25 mg/l.

Can I chalk it up to the high NH3/4 levels or should I be looking at other possibilities?

Thanks,
Brian

[porkchop]

.25 is not that bad, not great but not that bad. I would look elsewhere. Do you have any other live stuff in the tank? Where is the ammonia and ph at? Tank grounded?

Kevin

[bwilcove]

Ph is 8.5 or so. Ammonia is ok. Carbonate hardness is pretty high as well.

[porkchop]

Is there any other live creatures in the tank or were the snails the first addition?

[Justin]

Yes, give us a rundown on your fish list, also, whats your salinity at?

-Justin

[Loverotties]

What do you mean the Ph is 8.5 or so?8.3 is normalif 8.5 or so is 9.0 then there's your problem.

[wharyat]

Yep, your water is a little basic. Add some distilled white vinegar to your top off, 1-2 teaspoons/gallon, drip slowly. If your adding kalk, cut the amount that you dissolve per gallon.

[wharyat]

Oh yes, the most important question:

Did you acclimate them?

Disregard my previous post if you havn't.

[Phishnoob]

Is the tank currently hosting other forms of surviving life? Also, how long has the tank been up? Those guys should only die due to slow attrition such as mean hermits or misbehaved fish, but are pretty bulletproof due to water conditions.

[bwilcove]

Ph - 8.5
Salinity - 1.028
Ammonia - 1.0 mg/l
Nitrite - 0.3 mg/l
Carbonate/Alkalinity - 28 dKH

6 gallon nanocube

Been up for 4 weeks. At week 2, seemed to have gone through cycling process (lots of critters living in sand, on walls, etc...), but Ph was really low (7.6). I changed about 20% of the water and added both Kalkwasser and carbonate hardness additives. Got the Ph up to where it is now, but alkalinity is really high.

Once Kalk was added, critters died due to calcium carbonate forming on tank and live rock.

It's been clear for 10 days or so, so I added the snails (first thing to attempt to add to tank)

I did acclimate them for over 2 hours and they were fine with high % tank water in their bag at the 2 hour mark, so I added them. But then they died within the next hour?

Brian

[wharyat]

Sounds like you may have added the kalk in too quickly, you should drip it in around a drip/second, or your pH will skyrocket too quickly and kill anything sensitive to large swings. Kalk'ed water has a pH of 12, extremely basic (pH scale ranges from acidic 0-6, 7 neutral, basic 8-14).

Salinity is a little high, best is 1.023-1.025, I prefer 1.025.

All those values are WAY to high, especially alkalinity; 12 is normal, I keep mine high @ 14. Do a series of 10% water changes every few days till you have 200% of the water changed, or till readings are normal. Do this SLOWLY, you want to avoid any more die-off due to any major swings. Kalk is it's own, the only other additive should be calcium, but only if it's low, and especially only if your testing for it.

pH will drop during the night regardless (due to the lack of photosynthesis, and leaving an abundance of unused CO2), this is when to add kalk.

Photosynthesis: 6H₂O + 6CO₂ = C₆H₁₂O₆ + 6O₂

[aussiereefer82]

Agreed with Vince. This is probably the cause if you dump the kalk in all at once.

[tdwyatt]

Originally Posted by bwilcove

Ph - 8.5
Salinity - 1.028
Ammonia - 1.0 mg/l
Nitrite - 0.3 mg/l
Carbonate/Alkalinity - 28 dKH

6 gallon nanocube

Hi Brian, and Welcome to TRT

Normally the ammonia at this level would not be a big problem, but it is usually accompanied by a low (aroud 8.0 to 7.85) pH that keeps the ammonia in an ionized state (NH4+ as opposed to NH3). This ionized state makes it difficult for the ammonia to cross most types of biological barriers in this form, and therefore lowers ammonia's toxicity, allowing many creatures to endure low to moderate levels of ammonia and nitrITE that would range from problematic to toxic otherwise. By increasing the pH with kalk (or with a system that is at static higher levels above 8.2), the toxicity is dramatically increased, such that at 8.5 what might normally be only a issue of moderate concern becomes an emergency situation in marine tanks. The presence of ANY ammonia or nitrITE is an indication to not add any specimens to a system, in particular in a small tank. Especially in a 6 gallon system, this means that specimen addition must be very slow, at the rate of possibly one or two small specimens every few days (including snails, crabs, and shrimps) until you reach your bioload ceiling. Keep in mind that small systems can have very rapid swings in pH and nutrient levels with very small inputs, such that if you dose kalk, it would be best to use a peristaltic pump to slowly infuse the kalkwasser as an evaporative replacement at the rate that the evap occurs (so that the pump runs 24/7 from either a reactor or from a reservoir, with an emergency float switch for shutoff the litermeter if the tank gets too full). Kalk would be the best means of supplementing your Ca and alk, but it also means that you must be very careful in dosing the solution.


More later if you need it, got to go to sleep soon...


HTH

[bwilcove]

Ok. Any other options to stablize the tank, or are the water changes the best course of action?

It seems as though the tank is re-cycling? If so, and the values return to normal levels, is the high alkalinity a problem long term?

Thx,
Brian

[tdwyatt]

it should not be, especially if you add kalk slowly over the day. You need a pH meter to track your pH during the day to see where your values are going. Cover the probe with a piece of perforated PVC pipe that gets good flow, this will keep the algae growth down on the semi-porous tip if you don't have a sump.