Help! brown algea covering colaline algea on live rock

[tims]

is that a blue linka?

what do you mean by aquascaping? if you mean add more live rock?. then you need to cutre it in another tank first unless you want toremove all of your fish, if you mean just to re arrange things . that you can do any time.
if you really want to keep damsels, look into the blue/green chromis..they are part of the damsel family and love to school togeather, they do stay pretty small too.
unfortantly a 55 gallon is not very large for a tank with fish and LR and corals. you can get a way with small size fish ( firefish, chromis /gobies..etc) but tangs, and such really need a larger tank...

do you have a skimmer? .. what in the end do you want in your tank?

[drsyme]

Hi

I am sorry but it sounds like you are getting some really bad advice at the LFS, and you have probably gotten the tank off to a difficult start.

Really we need some details about your system, in addition to tank size, how many pounds of LR? How much sand? What filtration do you use? Do you have a protein skimmer and what type? What type of water are you using? What lighting do you have? How much water flow? Do you have a sump?

From what I know so far, I can only be sure about two things, first your stocking level is too high. I am not sure how much you can do about that now, seems unlikely you can catch the damsels, you probably have 3 or 4 too many. A fish trap seems to be the only way to get them out at this point.

Second, you need to do frequent water changes. Get on a schedule for doing that. 5% weekly, 10% every other week. You cannot just get by with top off water.

Dont worry about testing for phosphates now, they are high I am sure. The test may not show them, but they are still high.

Clams require conditions that you would keep SPS corals, high water flow and intense lighting, zero nutrients. (Well clams do ok with nitrates) At the minimum you need a mature tank, so forget about the clam for now.

[fallen]

I dont believe the tangs really eat the brown algea, snails are certainly a good idea, there are also some crabs who with help to eat your algea. Cut back on the feeding a little bit too, this sometime causes the algea to grow out of control. From what you desrcibed you should be done cycling, just keep an eye on the levels, as if you do have a problem there are places that sell refregerated bacteria to cycle your tanks right away. My sells it.

[fishiesRfriends]

Hello,
Im not sure what kind of starfish he is. What I mean by aquascaping is adding mushrooms and mabye some button polps to pretty up the brown rocks. I only have about 20lbs of live rock. The rest is just rock. Someone told me if I was patient coraline algea and other living things would grow on it eventually from my live rock(mostly a $ issue for me). I already have tiny little feather dusters growing on those rocks(the not live ones).
Ok as for my system. I have a 55 gal. with a marineland emporer 400(I used w/freshwater tank)and a Seaclone 150 with a very powerful air pump with 4 outputs. I use all four, 2 for a 3 ft. wand that suctions on to the back of my tank and the other 2 for about a 3" disc air stone that lays at the bottom of the tank.There is a lot of water movement in the tank. I also have a generic breeders net in there in slightly in front of the filter for movement through the net.I added a rock with a plant attached to it and tonight added my blue starfish (who was being picked on by cleaner shrimp, strange night).

The other day I added Phosphate sponge to my filter and took it out 2 days later and replaced it with new. I cleaned my tank after reading your responses and cleaned walls and moved the sand where the algea was growing(not that much of the sand). And of course added the plant.Only added one snail. I know I still need to add alot more.

Since then I have not seen any new brown algea. The brown algea on my rocks did turn to green (thank god) and my tang is picking at it happily. There are still spots where you can see green instead of the pretty colors that were there though.

I reallly appreciate everyones help. Just think I would have gone on not doing water changes thinking I was doing what I was supposed to.

Although after my 20% water change my nitrites went from 0 to .50. I dont understand why doing a water change messes up my levels. I will do another water change in a week from last one but only 5-10% this time. Which do you suggest. Still a little hazy on that one.I have so many people telling me different things and have read so many different ideas on how to it. Not sure if taking to much water out is hurting my levels or if its coincidental.

Still need to figure something out with my overload of fish.

Thank you everyone for your help. Dont give up on me here I still need help!
Seriously Thanks guys.
Juliette

[fishiesRfriends]

Oh and I forgot lighting. I have 2 65 watt compact bulbs with 50/50(what does that mean) and a 40 watt strip light 50/50 also. Just barely gives me three watts per gallon.
I will add more later, I would like some kind of moonlighting too.
Juliette

[alaskaknucklehead]

Ok, Im not gonna sugar-coat this so dont be mad at me...
first your star looks like a blue linkia, very sensitive invert requiring a well established system (years) along with rock solid water parameters, I am afraid if your shrimp is "picking on him", as you described well... thats not good....hes prob. gonna help clean up the mess... how long have you had it/how was it acclimated, and has there been any changes?
Next most impotant issue I have to say is the LR, I think you need at least twice as much as you have now. The "live" in LR represents not just algaes and inverts but the harbors the live bacteria that helps filter the system. No matter how cured you may be told it is, it will usally have die off and that is why you want to make sure to cure any rock at home before adding it to the tank.
As per the algaes IMO your gonna see all kinds of algae blooms over the next year,
key is to go slow... and try to keep your bioload down.
Keep an eye (and a brush) on the seaclone..
research threads/archives here for some ideas on curing more rock...
HTH
keep us posted
the 50/50 is 50%actnic and 50% 10k

[adam6001]

I have a yellow tang and a kole tang in my 65 gallon tank,They are doing fine I don't think your tank is to small for one tang.

[tdwyatt]

Originally Posted by adam6001

I have a yellow tang and a kole tang in my 65 gallon tank,They are doing fine I don't think your tank is to small for one tang.

Not to flame you, Adam, but say that when they've been alive and Ich-free for a few years. Stresses that bring on problems with Tangs are associated with territorial issues in these fish when confronted with conspecifics. All fishes are individuals, and I would think there will always be exceptions, but these fishes are generally rapid quick swimmers used to living in open ranges where they sprint from reef location to location. Confinement to spaces much smaller than 75 gallons (check the Debelius Marine Atlas reference for Tangs as well as Scott Michael's reference for reef fishes) ends up stressing fishes that results in many of the undeserved reputations for these fish being ick magnets. This becomes even worse when more than one conspecific is included in an inappropriately small space. This is not such a big deal when the specimens are small, but as they achieve adulthood sizing, it can become central to their longevity.



To Juliette: If you want a herbivore (and your system will prolly need one), you might want to consider returning the Tang down the line, but for now, it appears to be a smaller specimen, so it may not be a problem for now. Better for a 55 gallon tank would be one of the Rabbitfishes (Siganus spp.)

A lot of issues are being addressed in this post, and you're getting a lot of advice, most of it good, a few, although well-intentioned, miss the mark for a relatively young system. Your system has actually gone through the "cycling" process, in which the species of bacteria necessary to provide for the removal of nitrogenous wastes produced by biological processes in the system have grown to sufficient levels to handle the waste ammonia and nitrite produced. This is not to say that your system has matured the food chains necessary to have a system relatively free of nuisance algae blooms. The tank will develop over time to produce a system of food chains capable of competing for the dissolved inorganic and organic nutrients that result from feeding fishes in the system, and removing the wastes that they produce. This includes nutrients sourced from leftover foods, coral mucus, algal metabolic byproducts, critter poop, etc. Initially, algae will have the upper hand in acquiring and consuming these substances, and in the absence of competition and predation, will produce algal blooms. As each bloom occurs, other organisms that feed on these algae will then have sudden ample food supplies on which they can increase their poulations, resulting in their own population blooms. This will go up the food chain, with little waves of population increases and troughs occurring, much like the ripples in a pond resulting from a tossed stone. The maturity you seek in the system will be the result of an equilibrium that develops as the different populations of each step in the food chain finds its ideal level. At that point, no particular organism will have an advantage that will allow for a bloom of its population to occur. For algae control, this is a result of both competition for the resources by other photoautotrophs, heterotrophic feeding activity by microorganisms and protists on the algae at the microscopic and mesoscopic level, and grazing activity by snails, hermits, and fishes (top-down herbivory). You will also provide competition for the nutrients available in the water column by providing adequate skimming and nutrient acquisition via chemical filtration of the water column. Removal of detrital material (mulm, fish poop, rock siphoning, etc.) and harvesting the algal blooms provides for export of these substances trapped in the biomass of the offending algae, so it is in your best interests to siphon out these algae whenever possible. There are other mechanisms that will help to export the nutrients involved in feeding fishes, but prevention of potential blooms by reducing the input of these substances is the best way to control algal blooms. This means that you will need to consider which is most important, having a large population of fishes (and dealing with the feeding and waste removal that goes with them), or establishing a balanced system based on a more reasonable numbers of fishes.

Rather than going on on the topic, I'd like to suggest that you get a few of the books in the book section here on TRT.









Reading these informative sources will help you make sense of the TON of advice you'll receive on the questions you ask, and help you make good informed decisions on the husbandry of your system. At this point, patience is a commodity for you. Best to do the reading and use the forum here for backup for the questions that come to mind.


Before you spend any more on the hobby, take the time to read the books and become more aquatinted with some of the intricacies of the hobby. It's a bit different from FW tanks and FO systems.

HTH

[alaskaknucklehead]

well said Tom!

[adam6001]

well according to live aquaria.com a 50 gallon tank is the minimum size tank they recommend.so I guess I'll see if they make it.

[VWD]

Well You could used turbo snails, But I think You have way to much for a 3 month old 55 gal. let along a 55 in general, as far as the tang they like alot of room as they swim and pick at things and get pretty large and add to Your bio load, I am with tim as on that the tank is to small.



Vince

[tdwyatt]

Originally Posted by adam6001

well according to live aquaria.com a 50 gallon tank is the minimum size tank they recommend.so I guess I'll see if they make it.

Adam, you will need to find a better source of information for the sake of your fishes and your tank in general than liveaquaria.com. Their introduction into marine fish systems was with their purchase of a well-known internet sales site for corals and marine fishes. They are pretty much in the business of selling fish and equipment as a subsidiary of a dog and cat 'net site, and as such, have difficulty maintaining an unbiased approach to aquarium husbandry. Mind you, I don't think there is anything wrong with their acquisition of the old Exotic Fish site, everyone needs to make a buck; but I would cautiion you on taking advice from their site as the Gospel...


Keep in mind that this is the company that was selling the "Finding Nemo" special of a hippo tang and a anemonefish in a 10 gallon instant aquarium kit... Again, there is nothing wrong with the site as a sales point of interest, just that you need to take husbandry info from them in the proper perspective.

[drsyme]

Originally Posted by tdwyatt

Adam, you will need to find a better source of information for the sake of your fishes and your tank in general than liveaquaria.com. Their introduction into marine fish systems was with their purchase of a well-known internet sales site for corals and marine fishes. They are pretty much in the business of selling fish and equipment as a subsidiary of a dog and cat 'net site, and as such, have difficulty maintaining an unbiased approach to aquarium husbandry. Mind you, I don't think there is anything wrong with their acquisition of the old Exotic Fish site, everyone needs to make a buck; but I would cautiion you on taking advice from their site as the Gospel...


Keep in mind that this is the company that was selling the "Finding Nemo" special of a hippo tang and a anemonefish in a 10 gallon instant aquarium kit... Again, there is nothing wrong with the site as a sales point of interest, just that you need to take husbandry info from them in the proper perspective.

LOL, I got suspicious of them when they called the anus of a diadema urchin the eyespot, lol.

But I still buy stuff from them, they have a decent policy of returns/refunds etc. But I would take their husbandry advice with a grain of salt.

Or a grain of calcium carbonate.

[alaskaknucklehead]

I saw that too!! I can imagine the reaction the first time its owner see's the "eye" in action. Adds new meaning to the saying, "here's to poo in your eye" LOL

[fishiesRfriends]

Hello again,
Today my fiance and I took all of our rocks out (put them in an airated bin) and caught all of our damsels. You guys should have seen him trying to catch them with a net and a brine shrimp cube. I kept hearing patience is the key. After about an hour he decided on taking the rocks out. By the time we caught them all we were ready to kill each other so I got stuck putting it all back together(Id much rather do it than let him do it anyway).It was insane.Im so glad thats over with, we have been putting that off for awhile now and that is exactly why. whew! Alot a work. So I have a question about feeding. I was reading some of the forums and some people are saying that they only feed the tank once every 2 or 3 days. Do they not feed their fish everyday?I really dont want to overfeed, but is that normal? Now that I have six less damsels I'm not sure how much to feed. A whole cube a day now would be way to much. Any imput? Tell me what you think.
P.s. Im holding on to baby tang, my fiance and I decided we want him and will upgrade tank.I hope he grows slow so I have enough time to plan it all out.You guys saw the pics how long do you think i can go for an average growing pace. 8 months??