Grounding probe?

[Wiskey]

Old yes,.. but I just had to vote

Whiskey

[Fly Guy]

Nope. My power supplies are grounded and bonded......

no need.

I read that link provided here a while back and it made me glad my systems dont need them anyway.

[Sndwave80]

No, I have thought about it but didn't see a reason for them.

[crvz]

I still contest that they're useless... if you've got stray voltage figure out where it's coming from and eliminate the source. Don't put a bandaid on the problem.

[nobody]

useless unless you have stray voltage. then just fix the issue dont put colone on it

[Loverotties]

It's a safty that when you put your hand in and didn't know of a problem that you don't hurt yourself,or if something falls in your tank as your working on it.

[seasalt dreams]

just another gimmik to take our hard earned money :P

[jrpdriver]

Originally Posted by tdwyatt

I have my concerns about both the validity of the information at that site and the significance as well. I think it is an issue where there is a little truth to color the entire basis of fact, but blown totally out of proportion.

GFCI and ARC-fault detector breakers should be mandatory as well, as I have seen too many fires result from inappropriate use of electrical devices in SW aquaria. Then there is the issue of products like the Rio pumps...

Each system has grounding here, if for no other reason than to make sure the curator here survives any of his own stupidity with saltwater and electrical current.

What's the issue with Rio pumps?

[nobody]

dont know i have a rio 600 on my skimmer works great?????

[tdwyatt]

For a number of years, the Rio line of pumps were known fire hazards and would melt down in the system to release PCB's and misc other toxins that ended up poinsoning the system. I do not know if the issues have been repaired or not, but for a number of years, they did not rate UL labeling either.

Now (just based on their history with ME) I do not use these pumps (though I still have one that I might use for mixing ASW if the need be). Originally circa 1985-1990, they were locally the only pumps available with a reasonable pricing, and the only pumps available in many distributors and LFS as all. After many reports of issues with meltdowns, I took one apart about the time this thread started: very thin wiring in the turnings for the motor, and no thermal protection circuits. This meant that as shorts develope in the windings, they would ony get worse (the greater the number of shorts between windings, the hotter the windings get, and the more rapidly they begin to create more shorts as they burn through the clear insulation painted on the wires, a very vicious circle). With thin wire, you can get more windings on the rotator for the motor, resulting in less need for thicker wire (more copper so the motors are cheaper to build with less copper). Thicker copper reduces the amount/number of shorts that form in the motor because their use reduces resistance to current and the resulting heat, but they cost much more when building these little motors. Motors of this type, especially with very thin windings, should have a thermal protection circuit to cut off the power when the motors get hot. They detect when the heat from the shorts gets hot enough to burn through the shellac, the only insulation between windings in these motors. When the shellac burns through, there is nothing to prevent shorts from occurring between windings, so the motor can get hot enough from 120V to literally melt down the motor and its plastic components, releasing them into the aquarium water... Rios had the (bad) reputation of doing this quite often when they first hit the market here in the 90's, and most aquarists have avoided them ever since.

That is the gist of the issue with the Rio pumps, and they have never admitted to having issues, nor have they announced that there has been a fix for the issues associated with the original manufacture of this line of products, soooo....

...you pays yer money, and you takes yer chances.

[Wiskey]

That's why I also keep Rio pumps out of my tanks

Whiskey

[DarthOcellaris]

yep...wont find a rio pump in MY water.

[jrpdriver]

Originally Posted by tdwyatt

For a number of years, the Rio line of pumps were known fire hazards and would melt down in the system to release PCB's and misc other toxins that ended up poinsoning the system. I do not know if the issues have been repaired or not, but for a number of years, they did not rate UL labeling either.

Now (just based on their history with ME) I do not use these pumps (though I still have one that I might use for mixing ASW if the need be). Originally circa 1985-1990, they were locally the only pumps available with a reasonable pricing, and the only pumps available in many distributors and LFS as all. After many reports of issues with meltdowns, I took one apart about the time this thread started: very thin wiring in the turnings for the motor, and no thermal protection circuits. This meant that as shorts develope in the windings, they would ony get worse (the greater the number of shorts between windings, the hotter the windings get, and the more rapidly they begin to create more shorts as they burn through the clear insulation painted on the wires, a very vicious circle). With thin wire, you can get more windings on the rotator for the motor, resulting in less need for thicker wire (more copper so the motors are cheaper to build with less copper). Thicker copper reduces the amount/number of shorts that form in the motor because their use reduces resistance to current and the resulting heat, but they cost much more when building these little motors. Motors of this type, especially with very thin windings, should have a thermal protection circuit to cut off the power when the motors get hot. They detect when the heat from the shorts gets hot enough to burn through the shellac, the only insulation between windings in these motors. When the shellac burns through, there is nothing to prevent shorts from occurring between windings, so the motor can get hot enough from 120V to literally melt down the motor and its plastic components, releasing them into the aquarium water... Rios had the (bad) reputation of doing this quite often when they first hit the market here in the 90's, and most aquarists have avoided them ever since.

That is the gist of the issue with the Rio pumps, and they have never admitted to having issues, nor have they announced that there has been a fix for the issues associated with the original manufacture of this line of products, soooo....


Very good to know, thanks

...you pays yer money, and you takes yer chances.

[Kevin1000]

My 02

The issue of ground probes is often debated on various forums.

Those who are not in favor point out that voltage in aquariums won't harm anything and that adding a ground probe has the potential to create current which can. I am unfamiliar with anyone who has done any test to determine whether stray voltage has any impact on livestock (or how high this voltage would have to be before it would have a significant impact). Not much has been done on what level of current would harm the fish either - the one test I recall reached the conclusion that the minuscule current generated by a ground probe is unlikely to harm anything.

People are under the belief that a GFI will always trip if there is an electrical issue in the tank .. not true. If you have an open hot wire in the tank at the same time you have an open neutral wire (say the power cord of your power head was sufficiently frayed) - the GFI won't trip. If you stick your hand in the tank you become the ground and hopefully the GFI will trip. If you had a grounding probe in the tank the GFI would have tripped.

I prefer to protect myself and my family over the purely theoretical argument that ground probes harm livestock.

[Elegance Coral]

I had a problem a long time ago with getting the crap knocked out of me every time I touched my reflector and the water at the same time. The lights were close to the top so this happened several times. It took me a while to figure out that a power head was the problem. Now I keep a grounding probe in all my tanks, and I don't get shocked any more.