Good Idea? Bad Idea? Let me know. - Page 2

ErinGoBragh · 03-08-2005, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motorslave

Gotta find whats feeding the algae. How deep is the sand? I would think that after such a short time that there wouldnt be much in the sand but then again there isnt much of a crew to help control wht does get into the sand. Maybe more flow is needed to help keep stuff in suspension so the skimmer can get it out.
I do think adding some snails and crabs would be a good idea to help get it under control. But still need to figure out where the algae is getting nutrients. I am also not so sure that getting some rock in there to get a bit more of a balanced system going wouldnt be such a bad idea. Hopefully some more seasones vets will chime in soon.

Robert

Well, if nothing else, Algone has a big red x next to it. as far as adding more critters, I would love to, but I am still grounded. In my house, If my wife grounds the kids, I don't take them off, and vice-versa.

I have even been sent to time out by my son when he was 3 (for doing something he got timeout for) and had to wait until he said I could come back out. What could I do? He caught me!

Melissa · 03-08-2005, 02:21 PM

Since I make my skimmer run wet, I get a lot less algae in the tank. I pull out about 1 liter of skimmate a day. It's light, but hey, it seems to work for me. Plus that forces me to add a little fresh saltwater every day.

Melissa

David Grigor · 03-08-2005, 04:36 PM

If you want this to be successful, your going to need to make some investments. I just don't think you can overcome without spending some money on better equipment.

At the top of the list is a good water filtration. RO at minimum RO/DI recommended. Unless you have tested your tap water and know that the nitrate and phosphate levels are 0 then your just fueling the fire with every ounce of water you add.

Second, a 2liter redneck skimmer just isn't going to cut it. Especially if algae has already taken hold. You can overcome this will very aggresive water changes but only if are putting in good quality water. IMO: There is no such thing as over-skimming. You need to get the best skimmer possible. It will pay dividends to start out with good equipment.

Thirdly, you need some cleanup crew. However, without at least the RO/DI ( or sure your tap water is nitrate/phosphate free ) they will never be able to keep up.

tims · 03-08-2005, 04:49 PM

Erin,
i may be missing something.. so please pardon me if i missed it..
you have no LR in the tank at all? and want to add 100LBS to it.is this already cured and waiting to go in.?

tims · 03-08-2005, 04:57 PM

okay just re read both threads..
i would agree with tom on the LR.. so i did miss it...sorry
where is the place placed? close to a window? is it also get other indirect lighting? when you do a water change how much do you remove? are you vaccuming the bottom well?
i am just trying to see if something was missed ....

ErinGoBragh · 03-08-2005, 05:00 PM

As I stated before, I am now using purchased ro-di water for water changes, and my skimmer will be replaced soon, but as for now, It really is skimming a ton. I have received lots of "buy this" and "buy that" regarding what livestock needs to be in the tank, and I have been told not to buy anything until the tank gets straightened out. Based on these discrepancies, I am hesitant to order the clean-up crew at this time, as I would hate for it to all come healthy, die in 2 weeks, and leave me with a tank worse off than it was before, and having to order another crew.

ErinGoBragh · 03-08-2005, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tims

okay just re read both threads..
i would agree with tom on the LR.. so i did miss it...sorry
where is the place placed? close to a window? is it also get other indirect lighting? when you do a water change how much do you remove? are you vaccuming the bottom well?
i am just trying to see if something was missed ....

The tank is in the center of the house, not in direct sunlight. It is next to the dinner table in the dining room, so when we are eating, the chandelier shines on the tank, but that is for 1-2 hours TOPS a night. As for water changes, I have jumped up to 20% Weekly. I am not vacuuming the substrate. I did a few times in the beginning, but I have stopped per Tom Wyatt's (?) advice.

rockster2599 · 03-09-2005, 05:54 AM

No wonder you are slightly confused. I think (and its only my opinion) that you are receiving Conflicting advice. Ill try to Illustrate this:-

1) You are told not to add clean up crew because you have lost stock.

2) You have algae (I presume hair algae) so you need clean up crew.

3) You need more rock but your parameters are fine.

These are all conflicting points. From my point of view (what I have read) this is how I would rationalise/deal with your problems.

a) When you first set up the tank you introduced too much stock and filled your tank with nutrients, causing water decline and death of livestock.

b) Now with reduced stock and feeding your water is fine but you have algea caused by the past water problems i.e. your filter wasnt mature or large enough for the stock you introduced.

O.k. now time for solutions. a) has been dealt with temporarily but will return when you introduce more stock and increase feeding. Therefore I think (again just opinion) you need to increase your filter i.e. more rock.
This will allow your tank to more effectively deal with the waste from the current livestock.
This will also make the water parameters more stable allowing you to put extra clean up in to increase grazing pressure. It means that the nutrient fueling algae growth will end up in the biomass of your clean up crew rather than in the water. You can probably have your lights on longer too, sounds screwy to grow more algae but you will eventually have to turn the photoperiod up anyway to keep photosynthetic organisms (corals etc). By tackling a) by using more rock you can tackle b) by increasing grazing pressure.
The advice you have been given to limit nutrients going into the tank, is good advice for a tank with a capable stable filter system (which you dont have). If you are using RO DI water and only feeding every 3 days you are limiting nutrients already. This does not mean you wont need patience but at the moment you seem to be trying to limit algea growth (a natural part of the tank cycle) wheras you could be "growing" residual nutrients out of your water (as algae) and removing these by grazing pressure into the biomass of your cleanup crew.
Hope this is clear (fat chance

)
I know others may not aggree with me, but this is how I would tackle your problem.
Rockster

rockster2599 · 03-09-2005, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErinGoBragh

and It would be possible to "strip" the ability of the rock to filter by adding it now.

Oh and I also think this is untrue. The ability of rock to filter depends on the size of the bacteria population in it. More nitrogenous waste=more bacteria if you give them time to cach up (why you are told to introduce fish gradually). As long as you stock your tank gradually you wont experience problems. I think waiting for your water to sort itself out before adding rock is confused because the rock sorts the water out. Even if the water does sort itself out when you add extra rock you will get a little dieoff (even in cured rock) which means (you guessed it) an algae bloom.
I understand that the rock may not sort out nitrates/phosphates but it will allow you to buy cleanup crew (without worrying about toxic water) which will remove algae (hence nitrates/phosphates) and keep your non-mature sandbed a litlle better stirred.
The main thing for you I think is to get your tank cycled in its final form otherwise you will get another algae bloom every time you change something (increase photoperiod, add more live rock, etc).
Rockster

skeety · 03-09-2005, 08:54 AM

I've remembered reading your threads from the initial setup of this tank, and truly felt your frustration at the clash of different advice you've been given. I really think there were some misunderstandings/miscommunications early on, that have spiraled into some completely opposite and conflicting suggestions.

I think Rockster did a great job trying to clear up the opposing advice you've been given.

I also agree with Rockster about the LR and lighting.

You have to get your tank to where you want it, under NORMAL everyday usage. If you get every thing under control...but with conditions that are not gonna be your norm...you're gonna have to repeat algae control all over again when you adjust to normal conditions.

Get however much rock in there that you're gonna want in there, have the lights on however long you're nomally have them on....etc. THEN get your algae under control.

rockster2599 · 03-09-2005, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skeety

I think Rockster did a great job trying to clear up the opposing advice you've been given.

Im glad someone understands where Im coming from

.
I think this thread would have the anti internet LFS owners jumping for joy.
Rockster

Booboo33062 · 03-09-2005, 09:20 AM

Great reading, I'm learning to put what I want in the tank, but let me ask another crazy question. What does RO-DI stand for? I am writing all these abbreviations down so I'll be more in the know. Ha Ha!

Thanks, Booboo

skeety · 03-09-2005, 09:28 AM

RO/DI - Reverse Osmosis / De-Ionizing

it makes the water clean as clean can be! ;-)

most water filters remove impurities, but RO/DI units will remove even more
(chemicals/nitrates/even more impurities...etc)

skeety · 03-09-2005, 09:29 AM

Also, check here for a list of common abbrev's you'll see on this site:

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/fa...m#faq_acronyms

David Grigor · 03-09-2005, 10:26 AM

Rockster, I don't dissagree with you at all. However, I think a big key you missed early on is he/she is using just tap water with a brita filter ( ie: carbon ). It all starts there......Water changes and topoff with nitrate/phosphates fuels the fire.

He/She needs to invest in some equipment. The things you mention are all valid IMO: Better Water filtration is the place to start before adding LR etc.....