Fuge Questions.. Geof don't bother to read this post we know your feelings ;)

titanfan · 02-20-2006, 09:27 PM

Ok.. So I am in the middle of designing my tank upgrade. Unfortunatly I am limited in my space so had to go with a smaller tank than I really wanted (65 gallon but only 36 inches long). Under my tank I have room for just a sump (30 inches long) mainly for the auto topoff and skimmer (euroreef 6-2). I am considering a hang on fuge to place on my sump. The main reason for the fuge would be to grow more pods for my manderin who has been happy with a life of bloodworms, brine shrimp, and pods thus far. Questions I have are:
1) Will the pods make it through the return pump alive?
2) For the macroalgea (mainly to keep pods happy) do I need strong lighting? Could I use just a regular clip on desklamp with a "grow" bulb? Would I have to put sand in it or could I leave it BB (easier to keep clean)?

Thanks
-Chris (too many darn poeple named Chris in this world

)

xaoss23 · 02-20-2006, 09:32 PM

if its going to be a hang on why not hang it behind the display? What type of HOT Fuge are you looking at?
(The reason Im asking... if you hang it on the display then you dont have to worry about the lottery of surviving the return pump)

titanfan · 02-20-2006, 09:39 PM

I am doing an over the top CLS. So, it may get crowded on the back of the tank. Plus I am trying to keep the HOB items to a minimum for looks. As far as the fuge I have not nailed down what I want. Opinions on this are welcomed.. I was looking at the CPR Aquafuge:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...1&N=2004&Nty=1

Casey · 02-20-2006, 09:41 PM

is it ok if I just laugh about the Geoff part?

Doug1 · 02-20-2006, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casey

is it ok if I just laugh about the Geoff part?

Hehehehe

Seriously, why not just set up a simple seperate refugium in a tupperware or something, use some old Live Rock chunks and rubble, with a grow light or one of the LOA 6500K yard lights, then rotate rocks in and out of the main tank to pod the mandarin?

titanfan · 02-20-2006, 09:53 PM

LoL sure its ok Casey. If you promise to buy a $25 jar of tiger pods. Put them in a tank for me and pump them into another with a quiet one 6000 and let me know if you end up with tiny pieces of chopped sushi.

titanfan · 02-20-2006, 09:57 PM

Doug, if I could find some room in my stand I would. I have 3 things going against me though.
1) no room in stand for a fuge
2) a wife that has demanded all to be contained in the stand.
3) a 10 month old who is infactuated with "fishies"

I thought the hang on fuge to be a simple easy to do pod breeding grounds.

Casey · 02-20-2006, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by titanfan

LoL sure its ok Casey. If you promise to buy a $25 jar of tiger pods. Put them in a tank for me and pump them into another with a quiet one 6000 and let me know if you end up with tiny pieces of chopped sushi.

Doug1 · 02-20-2006, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by titanfan

Doug, if I could find some room in my stand I would. I have 3 things going against me though.
1) no room in stand for a fuge
2) a wife that has demanded all to be contained in the stand.
3) a 10 month old who is infactuated with "fishies"

I thought the hang on fuge to be a simple easy to do pod breeding grounds.

#4, i doubt that a small hang on fuge will genarate to pod population you need to keep a mandarin fit

Is there no outta the way warm place you could do the tupperware fuge, use water from main tank water changes to help fuel growth?

on the other hand if its eating bloodworms and other stuff besides pods you are ahead of the game, if you dont have some already, get some Selcon and add it to the bloodworms to add stuff missing from terrestrial foods( see HLLE thread)

Good Luck

xaoss23 · 02-20-2006, 10:04 PM

Ive got a CPR on the back of my 30 and the pods (and expecially shrimp) are going insane in there! Not sure how many are making it into the display but it seems that since I put a rock pile up to the overflow area Im seeing more in the display (this could just be all in my mind tho) I also put a PH in there for added flow since the design creates a deadzone.

(Also pointing out that I have mine on the display)

titanfan · 02-20-2006, 10:29 PM

Doug: I am sorry I guess I misunderstood your thoughts. I could set up a 10 gallon some where not connected to the system as a pod breeding grounds. Would this require anything special? The wife just said %&^^% well ok I will edit what she said but the tupperware is off limits.
Yes he does eat frozen food. I can't tell you how many times I probably ticked off my 3 local LFS going each new fish shipment and have them feed their manderins. I did this for 4 months straight. This way I do not have to depend on pods.

xaoss23: I think a hang on fuge would work well just no space for it in my plans on the back of the display. I do still want a fuge mainly for pod growth. It would look better than a few strawberry baskets full of LR rubble in the tank (hey it works...). I guess though anyone with a fuge in the bottom of the tank runs into the possibility of chopped pods.

VWD · 02-20-2006, 11:06 PM

I use the clip on lights from lights of America , Daylight bulbs. Works great

Geoff · 02-21-2006, 11:26 AM

had to read it anyway.

this is exacty how i had my refugium setup when i ran one. i put a custom 40g acrylic tank on the back of my tank and had it overflow back into the main system. it is not a bad idea for what you are looking to do. the problem is getting the pods to go up to the drains into the display tank.

for most applications these tend to be way smaller than what is really necessary to do what you are thinking.

and you thought i would be all anti-fuge on ya. i can play nice if needed.

G~

tdwyatt · 02-21-2006, 12:17 PM

A refugium does not have to be isolated from the whole tank, just isolated from predation of the 'pods to allow for a breeding population to exist. If the goal of your tank is to keep the mandarin regardless of what else happens in the system (i.e., the mandarin is your MOST important specie in the system), THEN BUILDING THE ENTIRE TANK around this specimen is acceptable. You would be best served by a bundle of macroalgae that is not very leaky in terms of cellular contents (allelopathy) inside the main tank, with a barrier of some sort to the fishes in the system.

Think of the main biotope from which these fishes come, primarily littoral, lots of rubble on the bottom with deep sand, semi-lagoonal with Octocorals and some macroalgal stands of green where the small crustaceans you desire for the dragonette feedings will flourish. Supplying some herbivory will keep down epiphytic growths, but will not be absolutely necessary INSIDE the refuge area, but would be desired for the control of these algae in the display section of the tank. If you do not want to see the confinement area, construct the barrier of white gutterguard sections interlinked and attached either across the back of the tank or in one of the corners of the system (you COULD make an end of the tank into one...) and cover it with loose rock fascia. However, to assure that good circulation is maintained, it might be a good idea to use a powerhead to push plenty of water through the confined area.

Within a few months the gutterguard will be purple with coralline algae, and the population of 'pods will be well-established, so long as there is adequate lighting for the algae, occasional algal harvesting to prevent overgrowth that would otherwise block light penetration, occasional total removal/replacement of the algae and siphoning of the confinement area to reduce detrital and epiphytic fallout, and maintenance of current flow through the confinement area. An area where there is a total volume of approximately 1 cubic foot of Halimeda spp. or similar low "leakiness" macroalgae with a rocky rubble substrate and adequate confinement to prevent predation by other fishes should be more than adequate to feed a single Mandarin dragonette specimen once it has matured in terms of its copepod and isopod ppulations

This is not to say that I would recommend such a setup for a stony coral reef, or for a system intended to be a mixed reef of stony corals ("LPS" and "SPS" corals), as the presence of this setup inside a system will be a continuous source of organics and detrital reef snow, but for systems in which the fish are the main attraction, where the corals are secondary and space is limited, this type of application of the refugium as a feeding setup is ideal. It requires little maintenance other than the obvious once a month cleanup, is efficient in its feeding method, never chops up the critters, and can be well hidden either as it is covered with coralline or by constructing a rock retainer wall in front of it (make sure that circulation is not an issue with the rockwork).

HTH