Frag Tank

Viv · 08-19-2005, 07:54 AM

Since I've seen them I know there's probably experts out there...Can you tell me about frag tanks...I mean I know you got them in there to grow and all but if you cut the coral and its got mucus (toxins?-do all have toxins when you frag them?) well, do you place them in another tank for healing before placing in the frag tank... how quickly do corals heal if fragged? oh, and how fast should they be growing? Are these dumb questions?

reefBoyDc · 08-20-2005, 05:13 PM

Oh my.... yes these are dumb questions..

HAHA just kidding viv.

A frag tank is just that, A tank dedicated to frags. SO it's not pretty, but it's clean. N fish, no nothing, just water, plastic and frags. You want that water to be prestine to help the cut corals recuperate.

tdwyatt · 08-22-2005, 09:13 PM

cut the corals (espoecially octocoral/cofties) in another water column, allow them to set/coagulate for about an hour or two, and then place them in the prop tank. Keep softies and sps in separate water columns, you can cut sps in the tank with little consequence in reference to toxins.

HTH

skeety · 08-23-2005, 06:50 AM

I'm actually quite curious about this as well. I think I have the wrong idea about a frag tank.

To me, a frag tank would almost have to be in better shape than your display tank. As you're trying to get the frags to recover, heal, grow. All while they are freshly young (no where near the number of polyps they once had).

So While I understand that ZERO fish helps keep the water in better shape...I was confused about the rest of the set up.

For such a large number (eventually) of small frags, I would think the frag tank would need lots of pods/plankton/etc to sustain all the youngin's. Thus, wouldn't it need to be more established?

With so many frags healing, I imagine there will be toxin problems, so you need more carbon, and higher flows.

I could go on. Point is...I would think, ideally, the frag tank would need better equipment/maintenance/etc than the main display. My question us...I know I'm wrong....but why?

motorslave · 08-23-2005, 02:41 PM

Going to get into this heavily in the next year so...........BUMP!

tdwyatt · 08-24-2005, 01:11 AM

It depends on what you're propigating. Conditions need to be the absolute best possible for all corals in all tanks in all locations regardless of what the purpose of the tank is to be. If you're going to keep SPS, THEN conditions in the tank for display and the prop system must be the best you can provide for those needs of the corals (i.e., intense lighting, oligotropic water, good flow volume and speed and directional change, temp, ca and alk, yadda, yadda, yadda. The same realistically holds true for octocorals or any other organisms you propagate, With closed systems you need to separate octocorals from stony corals , in particular during any manipulation of the tissue of the octocorals that will release terpenes,, etc substances that will stunt or stop stony coral growth.

I imagine you can do both in the same tank, but not at volume, and in the long run, not successfully. You should keep a separate water column for the props, and different water columns for softies and stony corals. This is just in case you have a disaster of some sort, when at least you'll have your props to repopulate the tank, or visa versa if the tank goes south.

Hope this clears up the issue, to be truly successful as coral reef keepers, we ALWAYS need to have the best water parameters we can provide for ALL of our specimens.

Doug1 · 08-24-2005, 04:09 AM

I have seen a few nice prop setups made from wide shallow acrylic with egg crate rack for the frags, with water pumped from the main system sump(with and without UV.
Frag tanks are kinda like sump/refugiums in that they dont have to be pretty like a display tank, they just have to serve the purpose you have in mind and be easy to maintain

Viv · 08-24-2005, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdwyatt

cut the corals (espoecially octocoral/cofties) in another water column, allow them to set/coagulate for about an hour or two, and then place them in the prop tank. Keep softies and sps in separate water columns, you can cut sps in the tank with little consequence in reference to toxins.

HTH

What do you mean by another water column? They set/coagulate for an hour or two in this "water column" - do you change the water? And if they are set in an hour or two why not place them back into the main display tank at that time?

motorslave · 08-24-2005, 09:18 AM

A seperate system. Or just a tank for this purpose.

Robert

Doug1 · 08-24-2005, 09:21 AM

Another thought is to save old water change water and do your coral cutting in that, then move them back, or into a separate frag tank for grow out. Also some people use iodine dip to disinfect the fresh frags, so you will want to throw that out long with all the panic chemicals the soft corals may exude

Viv · 08-24-2005, 09:33 AM

I really don't mean to sound so dumb, but here it goes anyway...why do you want the frags to "grow out" in a separate tank? Are they still putting out toxins? I see frag tanks with many frags in them...separated by lots of space, is there a reason for this? I guess I don't understand the need for the separate tank-other than the one to two hour healing time...am I missing something?

Doug1 · 08-24-2005, 09:53 AM

If you are only doing a few at a time, you can put them back in the main tank, if you have lots of corals you are fragging , then a separate tank makes since. esp if you have eggcrate racks to hold them and lights you can adjust the distance from the water.
That way you can better control the water flow, and other parameters as opposed to putting them back in the display and hoping the current or a crab or snail doesnt knock it into a gap in the liverock, etc

tdwyatt · 08-24-2005, 11:30 PM

In addition, these can be good pieces for trading or helping out yer buds with adquisition of corals they might not otherwise be able to acquire. Stoney coral frags grow slowly until the base forms its encrusting base, then they usually take off like weeds. As Doug has pointed out, they can be controlled, adjusted for position, trimmed, and encouraged to grow to colony size in the prop tank woithout losing them in the rock as unattahed specimens as you would in the main display. Many frags will change drastically while "growing out", often browning up to feed the coral tissue initially, then regaining their original color (if lighting, water parameters, nutrient levels, and current are the same) once the initial shock is past.

I persnally pack in as much coral tissue with some allowance for growth as is possible, this first shot is the prop tank with a two week old batch of props, notice the ring of new growth on most of the Montipora capricornis specimens already...

and compare that to the amount of growth at 6 months...

encrusting sometimes includes the rack underneath, I have given away many pieces of the rack that have turned into healthy colony-sozed specimens...

Some color change can be expected in tanks that have different temp lights or lights with different wavelength characteristics, as well as morphological changes associated with current, etc. Somethimes the growth will get a little out of hand and it will be time to either swap for new cuttings or make placements in a new system (or homes in the old established displays...)

All of these were shot with MH lighting only or MH lighting with maybe one fluorescent or actinic so you can see the true colors of the corals, all without flash. I personally am going through a cleaning phase with the tanks and have cut back on the number of frags in the tanks until done. I had Andy (MRC) build me a really nice prop tank (60cmx150cmx30cm deep) with 18mm thick acrylic that I am setting up this fall for stony corals (slowly, slowly...), maybe sooner if things slow down a bit at work... Then I can take this tank (in the photographs) and make is a dedicated octocoral prop system.

If you do prop systems, remember to make the height of the tank high enough for you to work in easily by lifting the lights, but not so high that you can't comfortably work in the entire tank without streatching too much. It helps to have your lighting on a suspended frame to make lifting and lowering them easier.

HTH

Viv · 08-25-2005, 02:13 AM

This is totally cool, thank you for the info, each and everyone of you!

Justin · 08-25-2005, 03:36 AM

good info indeed. Our club's doing a coral prop.session, and ill be doing what you suggested Doug1, very important for people to know to frag there stuff in a seperate container, then rinse with another container, or use this last container and do what tdwyatt suggest and let it sit and coagulate for a few, before putting it back in the display, or prop if you got one. Got a big pink w/ goldcrown sarcophyton thats getting just too big for his corner of the tank. Prolly end up with about 15-25 of those bad boys.

-Justin