Frag Tank

[Justin]

P.s. Ive already picked mine out tdwyatt, when can i come over and get em!
Lovin that pocillopora

-Justin

[motorslave]

Tom, how about the overall prop system set up? Sump with heavy skimming I would assume. Is it that simple? Or, is there more to it? I would think that a quality skimmer and the right flow and lighting would be it, am I correct?

Robert

[skeety]

here's another issue I'm confused about.

Unless you're in this from a business perspective, MOST of us have our corals permanently placed in our tank. For ME, the main objective of fraggin would be more from a pruning perspective.

How do I frag a coral thats growing a bit out of control in my display tank where he is permenantly located, and do it in a separate tank?

I guess this would mainly be SPS's, which I'm gathering it's not really an issue.

But I do have some LPS's that I can see growing out of control...how do you guys handle this?

[Justin]

Follow it by a waterchange, and fresh carbon. If theres no alternatives this is the best you can do.

-Justin

[tdwyatt]

Originally Posted by motorslave

Tom, how about the overall prop system set up? Sump with heavy skimming I would assume. Is it that simple? Or, is there more to it? I would think that a quality skimmer and the right flow and lighting would be it, am I correct?

Sorry to take so long to respond, Robert, work has just been an absolute nightmare as of late.


I use the sump with one of Andy's (MRC) skimmer set up for heavy skimming, and because I have a sandbed in the prop system, I use a reactor with phosban (GFHO), my usuaoy methodology of granular carbon 24/7, and I was using Halimeda as a microalgal export mechanism, although after a little disaster due to some oversights on my part, I have stopped that for now. I will prolly restart algal exort with Gracillaria again soon though, as it is another not-very-leaky macroalgae that is resistant to holocarpic reproduction and it has the added advantage over Halimeda in that it doesn't suck up a ton of calcium. I experimented with Xeniid export for a while, but the production of terpenes stunt4ed the growth rte of the stony corals I was concentrating on at the time. Xeniid esport would be ok for octocoral systems, but forget it with stony coral specimens. Under no circumstances should you use Caulerpa spp for algal export with stony corals, as they just are too leaky for dedicated propagation of Stony corals, especially if you expect rapid colony growth.

I also recommend that if you have a dedicated prop tank that you get a calcium reactor for calcium and alk supplementation, as with a large number of frags in a relatively small amount of water volume (100 frags use A LOT of calcium and alkalinity, even in 100 gal/400 liters of tank volume), you'lll really need the consistncy of a Ca reactor.

Current and flow are also important, but much of this will depend on how general or how specific your prop system is for what types of corals. If your prop tank is for stony corals, then it becomes important to have the current change direction several times during the day to provide for adequate flushing of the tissues on both sides of the colony as they grow into colony status from frag status. It WILL have an impact on how the colonies develop morphologically. This is not such a big deal for octocorals and softies in general, as they will adapt their growth pattern to differing currents without much overall differentiation that is readily visible to most aquarists. Their very nature as soft corals does not lock them into such a morphological growth choice. remember that for the type oc current you need, you want a wide flow of relatively good movement without blasting the corals with a wawter hose effect. Tunze Streams or their generic equivalent are ideal, but manifolds can be made that provide good flow without blasting the coral tissue of a few specimens with a spike of hard water flow. Laminar flow is the best you can provide


More if you'd like, but this is the gist of the comments.


HTH

[Viv]

If you type it, I will read it! It's really an interesting topic. Are softies easier to propagate as compared to SPS or vice/versa or just different kind of tank needs? I'd like to propagate for my tank, but have never attempted such a task.

[tdwyatt]

Originally Posted by skeety

here's another issue I'm confused about.

Unless you're in this from a business perspective, MOST of us have our corals permanently placed in our tank. For ME, the main objective of fraggin would be more from a pruning perspective.

How do I frag a coral thats growing a bit out of control in my display tank where he is permenantly located, and do it in a separate tank?

I guess this would mainly be SPS's, which I'm gathering it's not really an issue.

But I do have some LPS's that I can see growing out of control...how do you guys handle this?

Stony corals are generally not an issue, as they do not for the most part employ allopathic mechanisms that might be detrimental in the water column to other corals. Octocorals, in general, do employ this mechanism, and often release these substances into the water column even when the tissue is not cut, but do so especially as a result of trauma to the tissue. Of the Octocorals, the Suborder Alcyoniina is the worst for releasing toxic substances into the water column. There is a general pattern of toxicity amongst the Genera of this group of soft corals, ranging from almost always being highly toxic to stony corals to those that are rarely toxic.

A general list:

ALMOST ALWAYS HIGHLY TOXIC

• Sarcophyton spp
• Lobophyton spp.
• Lemnelia spp.

VARIABLY HIGHLY TOXIC IN DESCENDING ORDER

• Nephthea spp.
• Sinularia spp.
• Cladiella spp.
• Paralemnalia spp.
• Cespitularia spp.
• Heteroxenia spp.
• Efflatounaria spp.

OCCASIONALLY HIGHLY TO MODERATELY TOXIC

• Xenia spp.
• Briareum spp.
• Dendronephthea spp.

RARELY TOXIC

• Anthelia spp.
• Capnella spp.
  
  (adapted from E. Borneman--Aquarium Corals-2001).

Pruning and the consequences of pruning in closed systems where the specimen cannot be readily moved or moving the specimen would be highly disruptive to the tank may still be accomplished through the use of restriction pruning. This involves the use of either a zip tie or some other device that can be gradually tightened around a section of the colony at a desired cutting point over a period of two to three weeks. The zip tie is placed at the desired cutting location, and gradually tightened up a click every 2 or so days, restricting the colony and reducing internal circulation into the "limb" to be removed. Once restriction is close to complete, the cut may be made distal to the colony remaining in the tank, leaving the zip tie in place until the cutting has completely healed (about an extra week) and the cutting is immediately removed from the system. It would be prudent to run wet skimming and fresh carbon during this operation, and to change about 20% of the water, especially if a large number of cuttings are made simultaneously. The restriction method works well with most Alcyonians and has the highest frag/cutting survival rate for the more difficult Sinularia and Nephthiea spp. You may want to try using an appropriately sized rubber band, although I personally prefer the small zip ties for this purpose.


Lemmeno if you need more specific info on this, keep in mind that is still is in your best interest to keep closed systems of either stony corals or softies for the best survival of the stony corals, rather than a mixed system of both.

Originally Posted by Viv

Are softies easier to propagate as compared to SPS or vice/versa or just different kind of tank needs? I'd like to propagate for my tank, but have never attempted such a task.

Viv, Check out Anthony Calfo's Propagation book, a great resource for techniques if you have never looked through it, (although Anthony has a tendency to ramble a bit, it will be a good read!) It goes into much detail on the subject, and although I am not Anthony, I will be more than happy toexplain any questioin or issues you may have with the topic.

HTH

[Justin]

Where would you stick Corralimorphs on your list? I have a big tri color metalic green rhodactis Ive been dreading moving or snipping, but it stinging one of my frogspawn polyps. And the rock has to stay, otherwise I wouldnt be stressing, but this guy stretches 7-8 inches(with about a 1x2"foot) in my 55g.

-Justin

[tdwyatt]

Originally Posted by Justin

Where would you stick Corralimorphs on your list? I have a big tri color metalic green rhodactis Ive been dreading moving or snipping, but it stinging one of my frogspawn polyps.

we are talking about two different issues here. The corallimorphs may produce some mild form of terpenes or related alleopathic toxins, but the main issue with corallimorphs is mesenteric fibers from either the edge of the oral disc or the oral opening itself. They can be very aggressive and attack Acroporids and related stony reef top specimens with these fibers, usually under cover of darkness, denuding coenenchyme from the skeleton in wide swaths without much effort overnight, then again, some may live right besde a large specimen of stony and not ever bother it.


Personally, I have no corallimorphs in my stony coral tank, and NONE of the octocorals with the exception of Tubipora musica and some small Braireum spp patches (these green star polyps are slated for removal, rock and all)


The toxicities posted in the list above are for the production of terpenes by these octocoraols that give them the ability to compete with rapidly growing stony corals for reef space. Acroporiids and the like do not have these competative mecharnisms, and use their rapid growth as a means of overshadowing competing corals in the quest for reef real estate. The Octocorals generally (in the wild) cannot grow as quickly as these reef top species of corals do, and must rely on their chemical warfare to gain space in estawblished stands of stony corals.

[tdwyatt]

to remove the corallimorph, just use a pair of wire cutters and nibble awawy a chip of rock from under the specimen, then trade it away to someone that will have it in a lagoonal system (or your refugium)

[Loverotties]

Nice pics Tom.

[Justin]

Thanks Tom, your absolutely right. Couple nights ago, I did try slowly. Those fibers came out so fast from the center and the sides like electric whips!

-Justin

[tabwyo]

dang TD. You ever need a place to unload a couple of them frags. I know a certian somebody(me) that has a tank with plenty o' room.

[tdwyatt]

Heh!!!


I usually carry a ton of the frags from the frag tank (the one's I don't have targets for) to Atlanta for the ARC meetings, usually to give to folks that are either just getting started in the hobby or for those that have gone through some tank disaster of some sort. I do swap some of them, and I try to make it a point to find folks that have tanks with acceptable water params and husbandry schedules rather than just give them away randomly.

I think I gave away around 250 specimens last year at the ARC Xmas party. Right now I am trying to cut everything out of the tank to get ready for a tank swap into a new prop system (See above for the info on the tank I had Andy build for me at MRC) The old tank is OK, but th sides are a little on the thin side and the tank is only 2ft x 4 ft, a larger tank will help a lot, and I may use the old one strictly for octocoral propagation.

[tdwyatt]

Just a side note for those of you considering setting up a stony frag tank. It will be in your best long-term interest for a stony tank to be bare-bottomed, as not only does this reduce issues with organics that may brown your corals, but it will reduce the opportunities for pest infestations by flatworms, etc that ae not part of the stony coral biotope anyway. Treatment for such infestations (and for Acoporiid red bugs) is much less complicated when there isn't a substrate involved. If you want a substrate, use a separate refugium that can be removed from the system and purged if need be, or if the sand becomes saturated with phosphate, then you can easily change it out without disturbing your growing colonies.

HTH