Does this work read and say what you think!! Alagae Turf filter.... sounds to simple

[sks4613]

Let me say first I am not endorsing anyother forum or site over this one. The info and knowledge shared here is second to none, and I would recommend coming here for advice over anyplace else. That being said I was googling DIY ways on Nitrate reduction and this came up. It is a post at Talking Reef. Makes sense and sounds soooo simple. Could this actually work without problems. I'm assuming all my macro algaes would have to go but if it eliminated all phosphates and Nitrates.......... Will take a minute read and let me know what you think.
PLEASE!!!
http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/ge...art-1-4-a.html

[Fat Tony]

oh boy, we're not going to delve into this again are we?

If you want to read more about ATS, do a search on the forum, a few threads should pop up concerning the topic.

[tdwyatt]

Funny, and I don't know why I remember this guy's name, (I guess because he posted all over the 'Net on this topic), but I notice the recent flame-ish thread on ATS by SantaMonica is gone from TRT... ...at least it will not come up on advance search.

If you want some into on the topic, try Dr. Adey's work, or see why the Townville aquarium as set up originally failed, ditto for the Smithsonian’s reef system with ATC.

I don't know all the gory details, but I understand that Morgan Lidster at Inland Aquaria still uses this type of system for nutrient export, although there are many issues with using it for a stony coral system. Want more? Check out work by Tom Goreau et.al, circa 1985 in healthy stony coral reefs in the SP/Indonesia, He published a good bit on info on benthic sand biocoenosis and issues with algal-driven systems as opposed to bacterial-driven systems and referral to pollution from sewage, golf course run off, agriculture, slaughterhouses, etc. If you have access to the Ecology of the Indonesian Seas, by Tomas Tomsik, there is a good deal if info on why algal-driven systems tend to fail for stony corals in closed phosphate-ridden systems (in spite of algal harvesting).

I think most of the stuff by Goreau was published in Coral Reefs or Journal of Experimental Marine Biology or related journals. A good topic to read about when you're stuck at the school and it's a rainy weekend.

[Hop]

I got a migraine just reading the thread title

[sks4613]

Hop, Fat Tony if the topic bothers you just don't respond. Simply asking what anyone thought about this or looking for more places to get info on it. Sorry I'm not sure how I am supposed to be up to date about all the past posts on here or that this had been an issue in the past.
TDYWATT thanks for the info much appreciated!

[Fat Tony]

Hey, the topic doesn't bother us, it's the responses (if many at all due to previous posts on this particular topic) that you are likely to get from bringing the topic up... so jeez take a pill wont ya

But, if it's info you are after on the topic, Tom listed some good ones, and here is just one of the threads on the subject that didn't spin way out of control..

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f6...=turf+scrubber


In the end, it's a labor intensive way to filter your tank, costs less than a skimmer by all means, but costs more in labor overall. My opinion here is that they aren't really desirable for an stony coral tank, but for FO or softies you should be just fine as long as you run carbon for the gelbstoff (yellow water) and do regular maintenance on the device.

Good Luck

[sks4613]

Had not clue it had been a point of contention in the past I wouldnt have brought it. It sounds simple and pretty good but have to much coin in my tanks to try something without asking. It is after all the internet and not everything on there can be believed..... shocking I know. Just thought someone might have more info or tried it, as I said didn't know it had been an issue sorry.

[Fat Tony]

No biggie, just wanted to prepare you for the responses you may get if this topic strays. Most people here can keep their cool about a controversial topic, but there are some others that can't....and then things spiral. The thread I linked to has some very good information for some of the more advanced aquarists on this forum, give it a read, it will tell you pretty much everything you need to know concerning the ATS

[Cuttlefish]

Hehe. I stepped into this mess myself when I encountered the ATS. Seems plausible and simple to me as well, but there are very real disadvantages to them and they offer very little above what your basic refugium can contribute (a good, healthy one anyway)

Ive been doing this reefkeeping biz for close to a year. I really dove in head first and posed, discarded and verified many a scientific hypothesis. A year later Ive come to the conclusion that it doesnt cost thousands upon thousands of dollars, spent on every reactor, controller and latests gadget the aquarium industry puts out, to enjoy a wonderful reef aquarium. In the simplest terms, our job as aquarists is to remove as much of the organic waste load as we can, through use of protien skimming and media filtration. Whats left can really be maintained by mother nature. As long as you replace vital elements that get removed by livestock and skimming, there is indeed a balance that can be achieved in the ecosystem and a fortune definetely does not need to be spent. Might as well make yourself a refugium and enjoy it as a display, while you save money. Then feel free to laugh y.a.o. (on the inside of course) at the final bill of sale for the Tank of the Months out there. On the other hand they may have the smug satisfaction of knowing they barely had to lift a finger to achieve a pretty reef. After all pruning macro algae can be backbreaking work you know?

Just my advice, upgrade your fuge before you turn to algae scrubbing. Cuz I never heard anyone say how much they enjoy watching their ATS in action. A healthy fuge with a multitude of benthic and free swimming organisms is really something to observe as well as serving as a natural food source for the MT

[Phishnoob]

Aaahhhhh!!! I remember this going around before.

[Hop]

Originally Posted by sks4613

Hop, Fat Tony if the topic bothers you just don't respond. Simply asking what anyone thought about this or looking for more places to get info on it. Sorry I'm not sure how I am supposed to be up to date about all the past posts on here or that this had been an issue in the past.
TDYWATT thanks for the info much appreciated!

It wasn't directed at you, had no bearing on you and was actually supposed to be somewhat humorous. It will make more sense as posts roll in. You just can't have a ATS thread without comments, positive and negative. Just sit back, relax and realize that no one here on this board, especially a staff member is going to do anything to upset you on purpose.

Cheers

[Doug1]

SKS there are several threads that hash and rehash the ATS, and all the various refugiums that are actually algae based nitrate phosphate removal systems. Do they work, Sorta. Are they simply Plug and Play, No. even the basic barebottom , high flow, super skimmers have short comings, the trick it to research the methodologies you are interested in and see if they work within the scenario you want to replicate.
Algae based filters will absorb nitrate and other ammonia/nitrogen compound but alga cells are leaky and if not harvested regularly can break down and cause released nitrates and phosphates as well as yellow tinge to water. Some algaes used in algae refuges(notably various caulurpas can go sexual and break down in a last ditch to self preserve by releasing a lot of spores at the cost of the host plant. Having been a mod on this site for 10 yrs and in the reefing aspect even longer, i have seen a boat load of trends come and go, ATS, Deep Sand Beds, shallow Sand beds, Miracle Mud, Skimmer, No Skimmer, Refugiums, berlin Method, Plenums, and on and on and on.
There is no one magic formula that will fit all scenarios, inspite of that "research" site in Idaho, corals are a widely diversified group of animals and they all tend to specilize in specific environments. As such they don't prosper outside fairly rigid parameters so one of the main keys to sucess withany coral is to address its specific needs and base the tank on meeting those needs. Trust me when I say, IF there was a simple method that guarenteed sucess the hobby would be all over it and every reef board out there would be pushing it. Trends come and go and either stand the test of time or are abandoned for the most part. The hobby is in a constant state of evolvution as we gain more insight, bit by bit, but I think overall you will find a large number of hobbiest's that have been around a while and are willing to share, not only what worked for them, but why it worked as best they can explain and back it up. People tend to promote what works for them, but one thing you want to remember very few here are posting to push some miracle product they stand to make $$$$$$$$$ on, we have all wasted a boatload of $$$$ learning what does and doesn't work, and are willing to share that info with new comers to help them avoid pitfalls we all still smart from

[Cuttlefish]

Originally Posted by Doug1

SKS there are several threads that hash and rehash the ATS, and all the various refugiums that are actually algae based nitrate phosphate removal systems. Do they work, Sorta. Are they simply Plug and Play, No. even the basic barebottom , high flow, super skimmers have short comings, the trick it to research the methodologies you are interested in and see if they work within the scenario you want to replicate.
Algae based filters will absorb nitrate and other ammonia/nitrogen compound but alga cells are leaky and if not harvested regularly can break down and cause released nitrates and phosphates as well as yellow tinge to water. Some algaes used in algae refuges(notably various caulurpas can go sexual and break down in a last ditch to self preserve by releasing a lot of spores at the cost of the host plant. Having been a mod on this site for 10 yrs and in the reefing aspect even longer, i have seen a boat load of trends come and go, ATS, Deep Sand Beds, shallow Sand beds, Miracle Mud, Skimmer, No Skimmer, Refugiums, berlin Method, Plenums, and on and on and on.
There is no one magic formula that will fit all scenarios, inspite of that "research" site in Idaho, corals are a widely diversified group of animals and they all tend to specilize in specific environments. As such they don't prosper outside fairly rigid parameters so one of the main keys to sucess withany coral is to address its specific needs and base the tank on meeting those needs. Trust me when I say, IF there was a simple method that guarenteed sucess the hobby would be all over it and every reef board out there would be pushing it. Trends come and go and either stand the test of time or are abandoned for the most part. The hobby is in a constant state of evolvution as we gain more insight, bit by bit, but I think overall you will find a large number of hobbiest's that have been around a while and are willing to share, not only what worked for them, but why it worked as best they can explain and back it up. People tend to promote what works for them, but one thing you want to remember very few here are posting to push some miracle product they stand to make $$$$$$$$$ on, we have all wasted a boatload of $$$$ learning what does and doesn't work, and are willing to share that info with new comers to help them avoid pitfalls we all still smart from

Bravo. Gotta hand it to the TRT staff, they manage to remain impartial and strictly informative on every issue. No one seems to be pushing products they stand to make money on, just honest unbiased advice. I apologize if I insulted anyone who spent money on various reactors cuz after all, they do work. Like the staff say, there are numerous ways of keeping a healthy reef, just research which method works for you based on your time and money constraints and what kind of livestock you wish to keep.

[fihsboy]

HA! SantaMonica has posted the ATS on several reef sites. Im a member of a very small site...maybe 20-40 reefers and he was posting something new everyday on the site. He made us want to strangle him. It was okay that he was posting the info.......but he wouldnt post anything else. We tried to talk to him and be nice.....so how longs your been up? etc etc. We were finally mean and told him to peace out....and he did.

[DLO]

I have been running one for about 5 months now , its working for me . The phosphates that I couldn't get down before , which was why I decided to try the scrubber , have dropped from above .30 to below .03 . My sps growth and colors has greatly improved . I used to have to clean the front glass everyother day , now its about every 4 or 5 days . I clean one of the screens every 4 days which consists of pulling the pipe/screen out and scraping it off into a bucket and then plugging it back in, it takes about 2 minutes .